Anyone give a two handed great sword a workout?

[hank_rearden]

bigger than the english long sword, the zweihander was an unsheathed battle sword, meant to be carried shoulder arms. doppelsoldners weilding them were paid twice what regular infantry received (but the qualifiers must be as tough as SEAL training; the things weigh between 4 and 7 pounds.) among the uses for dopplesoldners was to charge at a pike formation, hack down the pikes, and allow the regulars to stream in through the breach.

someone told me museum pieces he has held have some sharpness put into them: a bit like an axe. so i'll believe they were really meant to hew at things in combat. from wiki:

 

[Timo Nieminen]

It's a fun weapon. It's a dance partner - you can't just wave it around using your arms; you have to move with it.

There are contemporary sources on how to fight with it, at least for the Spanish version (the Montante). If you search for "Montante rules", you can find Figueiredo's "rules" (basically, a set of kata/forms), both a translation of the original text and video on youtube.

 

[CloudsRest]

I sure have! I used my claymore to cut down about a 30x40 foot patch of bamboo. Took all of 20 minutes

 

[Mecha]

Yes I got to play around with and sharpen up a Del Tin copy, it was quite fun! I'm a big fan of the zweihander.

 

[crimsonfalcon07]

I'd love to see a Beta-Ti zweihander from you, Sam. What happened to your orange?

 

[shaw11b]

I've played with a montante in the SCA and Hema stuff. It is fun, but a beast. Once you get the sword going it is hard to stop. At the same time to be an affective weapon it has to stay in motion

 

[hank_rearden]

i still find it incredible that a guy could wade in and cut pike and spear shafts with it. with the weight of those things, they'd sooner snap the shafts than cut through them.

 

[Mecha]

I'd love to see a Beta-Ti zweihander from you, Sam. What happened to your orange?

Still working on the 6al4v ELI forged zweihander right now, just getting through another delay, but back on the grind (and the anvil) imminently. I'll be orange again as soon as I have the fun-tickets!

i still find it incredible that a guy could wade in and cut pike and spear shafts with it. with the weight of those things, they'd sooner snap the shafts than cut through them.

It's a combination of cutting and breaking simultaneously. The sword bites into the shaft causing a stress riser/weak point, then the break naturally follows. The sword's edge biting into the haft may also bind the blade as it's cutting and help to concentrate the force into the weakened notch. A pike with a heavier head will be even easier to break with the zweihander than a light one.

 

[hank_rearden]

It's a combination of cutting and breaking simultaneously. The sword bites into the shaft causing a stress riser/weak point, then the break naturally follows. The sword's edge biting into the haft may also bind the blade as it's cutting and help to concentrate the force into the weakened notch. A pike with a heavier head will be even easier to break with the zweihander than a light one.

thanks for that info. we were having a bit of a debate in another forum at just how useful something that big was. it looks like it was, but only for a short time in the 16th century (mainly swiss and germans.) after the 16th, sweihanders stopped being issued as regular weapons. gunpowder might have something to do with it.

someone was even challenging me to a simulation: his sweihanders against my scottish schiltrons.

 

[Mecha]

thanks for that info. we were having a bit of a debate in another forum at just how useful something that big was. it looks like it was, but only for a short time in the 16th century (mainly swiss and germans.) after the 16th, sweihanders stopped being issued as regular weapons. gunpowder might have something to do with it.

someone was even challenging me to a simulation: his sweihanders against my scottish schiltrons.

If it happens, for sword's sake post the video! XD

 

[Timo Nieminen]

thanks for that info. we were having a bit of a debate in another forum at just how useful something that big was. it looks like it was, but only for a short time in the 16th century (mainly swiss and germans.) after the 16th, sweihanders stopped being issued as regular weapons. gunpowder might have something to do with it.

They weren't ever common weapons on the battlefield. Various 16th century regulations and recommendations put them at about 1 per 20 to 50 infantrymen (mostly pikemen and musketeers). Sometimes in similar numbers to halberdiers (this is after the halberd has been replaced by the pike as the main infantry hand-to-hand weapon), sometimes about 1/4 the number of halberdiers. (Similar numbers to halberdiers gives about 1 in 20 infantry, 1/4 the number of halberdiers gives about 1 in 50; halberds + Zweihänders would be about 10% of the infantry.) Note that most doppelsöldner were armoured pikemen, fighting in the front few ranks in the pike block, or in the last rank or 2, so the proportion of Zweihänders could be much lower than the proportion of doppelsöldner (they were carried by non-doppelsöldner as well, so in principle, the proportion of Zweihänders could be higher as well).

We know they were used for protecting standard-bearers, and for covering the flanks of pike blocks (they were used for this at Flodden, where the Scots copied continental practice). Don't need too many for that.

 

[GWashington1732]

I sure have! I used my claymore to cut down about a 30x40 foot patch of bamboo. Took all of 20 minutes

Looks like reed grass to me. But yes, it is incredibly fun to smack with any bladed object. If you take and bundle it, it makes a great target, especially when it's fresh.

 

[Raymond1000]

Above

 

[Raymond1000]

i still find it incredible that a guy could wade in and cut pike and spear shafts with it. with the weight of those things, they'd sooner snap the shafts than cut through them.

Those heavy swords were ceremonial. Real use blades were much lighter.

Those big swords were used to break pikes.

That gave the sword and buckler men entree to swarm the pikemen.

 

[Raymond1000]

thanks for that info. we were having a bit of a debate in another forum at just how useful something that big was. it looks like it was, but only for a short time in the 16th century (mainly swiss and germans.) after the 16th, sweihanders stopped being issued as regular weapons. gunpowder might have something to do with it.

someone was even challenging me to a simulation: his sweihanders against my scottish schiltrons.

Of course. Until guns changed things, the Tierco and the Swiss Hedgehog ruled the battlefield.