Anyone have first hand experience with the Wiggy's Bags products?

Marion David Poff

Marion David Poff

Joined
Oct 8, 1998
Messages
5,403
Good Day,

I was checking out the Wiggy's Bags site and saw a number of items that would seem to excellently fill some gaps in my winter complement.

Chris Janowsky endorses the products, and that means alot.

Any other experiences/thoughts?

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Thank you,
Marion David Poff aka Eye, Cd'A ID, USA mdpoff@hotmail.com

>>--->Bill Siegle Custom Knives<---<<
-http://www.geocities.com/siegleknives-

Talonite Resource Page, nearly exhaustive!!

Fire Page, metal match sources and index of information.

"We will either find a way, or make one." Hannibal, 210 B.C.
 

I work at a local college here (soon to be a university
wink.gif
) ...

the recreation-ed folks changed over to Wiggy's bags a couple years ago.

I've used them a few different times (summer and winter). Nice and warm ... all the way down past -20 (but I sleep warmer than most).
Great construction.
Outstanding warrantee ...
Biggest plus for me ... you can wash them in the machine! Try that with most of the others!

If it wasn't so easy to "borrow" one from the college ... I'd have bought one before this. I'm still planning on picking up a couple!


Mike




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Mike's Emergency Preparedness Forum


No matter what you do, some things won't work out.
No matter what you do, some things will work out.
Worry about those things that you can make a difference with.
 
Within the Backpacking and Mountaineering community, Wiggy's bags are not well thought of. Maybe O.K for car camping, but for long distance backpacking and mountaineering, they are a poor choice. They lose their loft very quickly. Their warmth to weight ratio is one of the worst in the industry and their warranty is not well honored (Opinions of owners posted on several web sites). The Best made bag in my opinion is by Western Mountaineering. Best construction, Best warmth to weight ratio and they offer a bag for every environment encountered. The only bag I would ever buy is a WM.
http://www.westernmountaineering.com/
 
I've used a Wiggy's lightweight bag for SAR missions for the past five years. It's worked well for me in wet and cold Pacific Northwest conditions. It lives in a compression sack in my SAR pack, and I've experienced no significant loss of loft storing it like this. (My other bags are "properly" stored loose.)

Wiggy is extremely controversial on some of his views, and rubs against the grain of many sacred cows and traditionalists in the outdoor industry. There usually isn't much middle ground when it comes to opinions on the man or his products (love or hate).

My experience with his bags has been good (along with other folks I know in the SAR community). Don't expect a lot of whistles and bells found in other bags though. In my opinion he makes a good, basic, durable bag that can take abuse and keep you warm.

Joel

[This message has been edited by Joel McNamara (edited 12-18-2000).]
 
After posting it occurred to me that I should provide a few links. Hope these help.

http://www.backpacking.net/cgi-bin/reviews/sleeping/config.pl?read=11

http://www.backpacking.net/cgi-bin/reviews/sleeping/config.pl?read=14

http://www.backpacking.net/cgi-bin/reviews/sleeping/config.pl?read=4

http://www.backpacking.net/cgi-bin/reviews/tlb1999/config.pl?read=28

Some reviews where I couldn't copy the link.

I don't mean to be cynical where did all these people with glowing reviews come from. It doesn't take a genius to figure out somebody might be stacking the deck. Anyhow my review of the ultralight, worked fine for for two trips, but each time I compressed the bag it never seemed to regain its full loft. Then on my thrid trip, an extended climbing trip when the bag got a "little" wet and froze, it lost about 2 inches of loft that never came back even after I dried it at home. The bag was about 1 lb heavier than advertised weight, seemed to sleep a little cold. (and this is from a person who uses a Western Mountineering Iriqious rated at 38 F down to 25 F comfortably and a 0 F bag I've sleep down to -20 F just fine)
Also seemed to retain body odor, a problem I've never had with any other bag.
The price seemed to be good at first untill I used the product. It's the old adage you get what you pay for. Caveat Emptor, read other gear reviews on other web sites to get a balanced point of view.
Similar Products Tried:
Western Mountaineering - My favorite down bags (Iroquois, Antelope, Puma) Feathered Friends, Moonstone, Mountain Hardwear - My favorite synthetic bags.

Customer Service:
Customer Service - Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha. I complained - about my warrentied for life bag, I now use it as an example for SAR training of what equipment NOT to buy.

I have onwned my wiggy bag for over 7 years. I have not alway been happy with it, and find that it has lost some loft over time. I say this because my wife has the same bag and it is definitely loftier than mine. Over all it has been a good bag for 3 seasons. In the winter and late fall I add an inner bag and an over bag which really increases the warmth ratio. I have been quite pleased with its durability, and its stuffability, but not with its recommended temperature rating. For the weight, and cost it has served me well.

I have the SuperLight FTRSS which includes the SuperLight, the +35 Overbag, and a combined -40 when both bags are zipped together. While Wiggy's bags don't come with any fancy fabrics or options, they are super durable and the Lamilite insulation drapes around me like a down bag. It is also a little heavier than a Polarguard 3D bag but this is mainly due to the fact that; 1)It has a very accurate temperature ratings, and 2)It uses much more durable materials such as heavier zippers and shell material. Compactibility is just as good as any Polarguard 3D bag. If your a weight freak, look elsewhere. If your tired of replacing your synthetic bag every few years, then get a Wiggy's. The loft of the insulation is guarenteed for life, no matter how much you wash it.
Similar Products Tried:
Kelty Silver Streak (piece of garbage)

Customer Service:
Mr. Wigutow can be a little ""difficult"" to talk to sometimes, but I've never really had any problems with him.

This has to be one of the worst sleeping bags I have ever used. I was persuaded to try this bag out after reading the hype on wiggys.com and thinking maybe an unknown manufacturer really could have a diamond in the rough... I wouldn't recommend this bag to a Boy Scout, let alone a fellow backpacking enthusiast.
Similar Products Tried:
EMS Expedition -30

Customer Service:
Over hyped, and under performing. Wigutow is too busy bashing other manufacturers and overhyping his own to put out a decent product.


Built like a tank. I haved used this bag in temps colder than rated and was very warm. This is the best sleeping bag I've ever used - bar none. Not a lightweight wonderbag, just a well made product that performs better than advertised. This is the only company I will do business with in the future.

The bag is roomy, warm and well made. It also handles water/moisture better than than any other I've ever used.

Do yourself a favor: check these people out!
Similar Products Tried:
Kelty Quallofil (flat as a pancake after the first season and too small to even zip up all the way).

North Face down bag ( great as long as conditions are perfect).

Military issue ( use your imagination)


This is an adequate bag, and since I bought mine used, was really cheap. It lost much of its loft after two uses, so it is no longer much good in temperatures below 40 degrees, but the overbag is nice for summer use. The bag is nice and long, which is a big plus, but it is fairly narrow, so if you are broad-shouldered or you toss and turn a lot in your sleep, this bag is not for you. The hood is poorly designed and uncomfortable with the drawstring tightened. The bag is well-constructed and durable, but it's poor design and diminishing loft limit its usefulness.


Back in '93 or '94 I was attending Montana State University in Bozeman Montana. I wanted to do some backpacking with my wife (then girlfriend), but she needed a bag. My roommate worked at an outdoor shop in South Dakota and sold Wiggy's bags there. He said they were a great bomb-proof bag for the money. I said "sounds good" He jumps on the phone and starts talking to some guy named Jerry and orders a bag and shot the breeze for almost an hour! I assumed it was the order guy he used back at his store. When he got off the phone he told me it was the owner, Jerry Wiggatow. Cool!

The bag came and my SO and I headed out. It was in the mountains and clear the first night out. I was a bit worried about the SO as the Wiggy's was a +20 bag and I had my Slumberjack 0 deg bag. I woke up cold a few times that night, but was proud of my girlfriend as she didn't whine at all. In the morning I find out she was warm and comfey all night! How do you like that.

I used my Slumberjack several more times, but its Holofill just kept breaking down more and more. If I pulled it out today, I would freez using it in my house!

I was out of school now, but called up my old roommate and said I needed another Wiggys bag. He said no problem and had one ordered [long (I am 6'3") and the zipper on the oposite side from my wifes so they will mate]. I have used it several times an it is great. The only time we have gotten cold was in the middle of August in the Sawtooths when the temp droped into the zeros. We were cold, but made it through the night. Not bad for a +20 bag!

I have now had the bag for about 5 years. I bought it for snow camping/backbacking. Prior to purchasing it, it was claimed that it could be stored compressed without losing its loft, washed in a toploader, and should be kept clean.

The claims were true. Although somewhat bulky, it is almost a light as down relative to temp rating. Wet had no noticiable effect. I wake up with a layer of ice on it and simply brush it off (not enough heat transfer to melt it).

I have used it in snow country with without a shelter. Loft is still there. Also used it in boundary waters- damp does not seem to effect warmth.

I liked it so much I bought another of his bags that is 2 in one- zipped together it is a -20, seperate and it is good for summer use. Friends have bought 8 additional bags for similar use. A woman friend talked to the owner of the company (he will probably answer the phone if you call). He put together a bag built for her needs (different than us guys).

Big zippers. I probably won't have to buy another bag in my lifetime- after approximately 300 nights of camping/backpacking/etc, it still looks new. Just keep it clean.


The bag went absolutely flat (about 2" of total loft) after a few years. Wiggy advertises that the bag will never go flat, which is why I bought it. I slept cold at about 40 degrees, bag was supposed to keep me warm down to 20. Trying to get the warrenty honored was like pulling teeth. Downright abusive, to include name calling, and outright refusal. It wasn't until I asked Wiggy to measure the collapsed loft in my presence that he conceded the point. Took over 3 months to get the warrenty honored. There are too many other good bags out there to put up with this.

I think Wiggys bags are just great. I had a liteloft bag and it went flat in a month. I have been sleeping in it outside for multiple nights and slept in freezing rain at around 20-25 degrees ( The Bag comes with a thermometer)






 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by jttz:
Within the Backpacking and Mountaineering community, Wiggy's bags are not well thought of. /B]</font>
Click to expand...


I disagree. Wiggy's are well-thought of within the backpacking community and I can easily show you many, many reviews that testify to the excellence of Wiggy's bags. I bought one last spring and did an extensive search on the internet for reviews of Wiggys bags. Most were positive and glowing. To relegate them to nothing more than car camping is...how shall I put this...$%^&*() and $%#@!^&. Western Mountaineering is the darling of the elitist's bags and no doubt wonderful down bags. And you pay the price too. And they don't work any better than any other down bag when they are soaking wet. Nevertheless, if it's down you want, then they are certainly ONE of the top bags out there.

It's amazing to see how much "trendiness" influences people's choices for equipment, instead of common sense. Ray Jardine, in his book Beyond Backpacking, attacks this kind of trendiness with a vengence. Jardine points out effectively that what's "popular" could be just that thing that's really more than you will ever really need in the backcountry and maybe not as useful and desirable as you might think.

BTW, my Wiggys is excellent and an outstanding buy for the money.

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Hoodoo

I get some pleasure from finding a relentlessly peaceful use for a combative looking knife.
JKM
 
jttz,
After reading the reviews you posted, I rest my case.
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It's my experience that ALL synthetic fibers will break down eventually and lose their loft. I've used highly touted Qualofil bags that broke down in 3 years. I've also talked to people who had Polarguard 3D bags that lost their loft. I don't doubt that Wiggy's bags will lose their loft over time as well. But I suggest that if you want to go synthetic, I've yet to see a synthetic bag out there that consistently is better rated. And I don't think it's fair to compare Wiggy's bags to down bags, other than for the same reason you compare synthetic bags to down bags. But the real comparison should be made between Wiggy's bags and other synthetic bags. I realize Wiggy hypes his bags against down, but in fact, synthetic bags DO have some advantages over down. Loft per unit wt, though, is not one of them.

Down will always beat synthetic bags, lb for lb, especially when you are comparing them to the best down available.

I have down bags that are 25 years old and still have incredible loft. I also froze my a$$ off one spring when my down bag got soaked. And if you spend enough time on the trail, your bag will eventually get soaked. I like to sleep under a tarp, not inside a tent, so I'm willing to carry the extra bag wt for something that will retain loft when wet. But I lose all the weight of the tent. And I don't like goretex bags. Too expensive and you STILL get too much condensation.

So, if rain and high humidity is not going to be a problem, I go with high quality down. Otherwise, I prefer synthetic and I've never had a synthetic bag that wraps my body like a Wiggys. And so far, not a hint of loft problems.

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Hoodoo

I get some pleasure from finding a relentlessly peaceful use for a combative looking knife.
JKM
 
Hoodoo, you are correct regarding synthetics vs. down. Obviously a very wise man regarding these things. My experience is down outlast synthetics 3-5 to 1 in terms of loss of loft (depends on the down rating). I also believe down gets a bad wrap about being wet. Neither down nor synthetics keeps one warm when wet. Anyone who says otherwise is bull****ting. Neither down nor synthetics "holds" water. The benefit of synthetics is they dry quicker. One can "squeeze" water from synthetics and air dry relatively quickly. Down on the other hand "clumps" when wet and takes 2-3 times longer to dry.

The key to sleeping warm is to keep one's bag dry. In my opinion, this is very easily accomplished. First, make sure the stuff sack is water proof (incase your pack get's dunked). Just seal the seams of a water proof fabric. Second, make sure the shell material of the bag is water proof. I dislike gortex/dryloft as well (too noisy, doesn't compress well and is heavier than other materials). I prefer a tigher nylon weave that is water and wind proof. Western Mountaineering offers a tight weaved Micro fiber shell that has resulted in my bag staying dry. I too sleep in a 8X10 tarp. I dislike tents except when camping above treelines (read WIND and SNOW! - Mountaineering has no place for tarps). My bag has been rained on dozen of times and many times I have awoke to find myself sleeping in a puddle (my ground cloth puddled the water/spay that inevitably gets under a tarp's edges). My down bag has yet to get wet.

I could buy a 4lb 8 oz Wiggy bag rated to 20 degrees or a 2lb 6 oz WM with MF shell rated to a very conservative 15 degrees and piece of mind that it won't go flat! I admit I'm freakish about weight. However, the lighter my pack, the faster I move. I typically cover 20+ miles per day and can push 30 when needed. I use to do half that distance when I had 50+ lbs on my back and 5 lbs on my feet (needed heavy boots to support the heavy pack). Now I carry 15-17 pounds on the back and 2 lbs on the feet. By the way, the US Army conducted a study on the impact of boot weight on work load. The conclusion was every pound one wears on the feet is equivalent to 5 lbs on the back. Trust me folks, less weight on the back and feet makes all the difference!
 
jttz, you make an impressive case. Are you saying that the tightly woven nongoretex western mountaineering bags are waterproof or nearly waterproof? Yet breathable? I've never heard of this. Is there a danger of the down becoming soaked with body moisture and picking up weight under cold conditions? Also, I agree the first line of defense is to keep your bag dry. But accidents do happen. I've had wet down and wet quallofil and my preference is for wet quallofil. I once slept under a tarp about 10 yds from lake superior when an unbelievable storm kickep up. My qualofill bag got wet (but not soaking wet). I kept warm though. But qualofill just doesn't last long enough for me.

And I guess I'm a bull$hitter 'cause I still contend that down is near useless when wet. Obviously, any garment or bag will cool you when wet due to evaporative cooling, but loft is loft and insulation is insulation.

Note Michaels selection here of a synthetic jacket. http://www.monmouth.com/~mconnick/clothes.htm

Couldn't agree more on the footwear. It's hard to convince others though. BTW, how are you getting down to 15-17 lbs? What pack are you using? Are you carrying a go lite, mountainsmith, or what?

As people go lighter and lighter, hypothermia becomes a very real danger even in temps above freezing. My rule of thumb is to use synthetics when temps are 25+ degrees and when wet weather is likely (I hike a lot in the great lakes area), and then down at colder temps.

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Hoodoo

I get some pleasure from finding a relentlessly peaceful use for a combative looking knife.
JKM

[This message has been edited by Hoodoo (edited 12-17-2000).]
 
On the subject of losing loft, all the down bags stored in U.S. military pilot survival kits have been replaced by Wiggy's bags. Lamilite, the insulation used in Wiggy's bags, lost the least amount of loft in tests done by the military. As far as hype goes, Mr. Wigutow reminds me of Lynn Thompson, the president of Cold Steel. Both sell great products, and both make alot of people angry
smile.gif
. Regards, Clayton
 
Hoodoo, the MF shell is fairly breathable -less so than gortex but more water resistent than gortex. See the following excerpt.

Micro Fiber:
There are no tricky coatings or laminates here, this 360 thread count fabric has superior water repellency due to the nature of its weave. This 1.7 oz. polyester ripstop has filaments that are so densely packed that the spaces between threads are too small for water and wind to penetrate. This kind of weather protection can't delaminate or wash out. To boot, this fabric is impregnated with an 80/20 DWR. It is made with 30 denier yarns containing 36 filaments for each thread, and since it is a polyester it absorbs 50% less water than nylon. This downproof MicroFiber is the lightest and latest technological development in breathable fabrics.


Yes, body mositure is a potential problem but more so for me in freezing temperatures and when I must spend a week or more nights in my bag. In these cases, I use a vapor barrier liner (use them in synthetics and down bags - both are prone to "wet out"). I always dry my bag by turning it inside out while preparing early morning meal - when the weather permits.

I currently use a Golite pack. I also use a down jacket for cold evenings in camp. Again, vs synthetics, the down jacket is much warmer per ounce of weight. I am very careful to keep my gear dry. Whether it's synthetic or down, wet gear won't keep you warm.

I own a Patagonia fireball jacket like Michael's and several other synthetic Patagonia jackets as well. The loft in the Fireball went out a long time ago - the jacket is basically usless now. Look at Golite for example - they absolutely insist that the polarguard 3d used to make their bags and jackets be shipped to their manufacturers "uncrushed". They make a big issue of this and promise it to their cutomers. This is great until the user stuffs the bag or jacket into a pack half a dozen times. Look at the following excerpt from Golite:

UNCRUSHED POLARGUARD® 3D
GoLite™ sleep systems use quilts filled with the most efficient synthetic insulation available to insulate above you and to your sides. Closed-cell foam pads insulate underneath you. Our quilts incorporate Ultra-Lite Ripstop nylon shells filled with POLARGUARD® 3D for the best possible insulation wet or dry. Our testing has confirmed that POLARGUARD® 3D is the most efficient synthetic insulation on the market. GoLite™'s POLARGUARD® 3D is the best available because, unlike other manufacturers, we do not allow the insulation to be vacuum packed or crushed in any other way during manufacturing, shipping, or storage. Our shipping and storage costs are roughly tripled by our uncompromising policy, but we refuse to buy the world's best insulation only to destroy it before it ever gets to you.

Let me paraphase: COMPRESSION DESTROYS SYNTHETIC INSULATION. GOLITE IS SO AWARE OF THIS PHENOMENON THAT THEY WON'T EVEN TOLERATE COMPRESSION DURING SHIPPING!

Matter of fact, Golite claims that Polargaurd 3d can lose 20% of it's initial loft if shipped compressed! Compression harms all insulation. However, it kills synthetics 5 times faster than down. I have owned 3 synthetic bags before finally switching to down (I still have the bags if anyone is interested). I rationalized the wet argument, cost, etc. and bought synthetic - now I know better.

My experience points to the following: a good down bag easily outlasts the best synthetic bag a minimum 5 fold, down bags weigh 30% less than "equivalently made" synthetics for the same temperature rating, down bags have a wider comfort zone than synthetics and in the end, down bags are a better value. Hey, it's different opinions that make the world go around.

 
Thanks for the informative posts gents. I guess I'll never understand how one group of people think a product is the best equipment available and another group thinks its trash.
The only two explanations for this that I can think of are poor quality control at the manufacturer or one group of people is full of bovine recycled grass products.
 
jttz,
You sound like you know your stuff. Gotta respect that. What you are saying dovetails with what I've also read, especially in the return to down bags for cold-weather backpacking. Also, I wasn't familiar with this tightly woven fabric that is both breathable and waterproof but saying it is less breathable than Goretex isn't saying a heck of a lot. I've always wanted goretex to be more breathable than it is but of course, I want to go bowhunting with Gina Davis too.
wink.gif


Anyway, I appreciate your opinions and experience. However, I agree with Ray Jardine: "Synthetic fill materials also lose their ability to insulate when wet. For after all, water absorbed into the insulation, whether that insulation is down or synthetic, replaces the tiny pockets of insulating air. This water conducts away body heat. But at least when synthetic insulation becomes wet, even soaking wet, you can wring it out and restore much of its loft. There is no need to dry it before a campfire to ensure your survival in cold and stormy weather. In the event of such a predicament, this wring-and-restore feature can make a big difference."

IMO, it could be a life or death difference if you are hypothermic.

He also makes more comments about down on p. 94-95 of Beyond Backpacking. And the points he makes, IMO, directly contradict your statement that Wiggy bags are not well-thought of in the backpacking community. I think there are as many opinions on sleeping bags as there are about MSR vs Coleman vs alcohol stoves.

Don't get me wrong jttz. I like down and I use it. But I believe synthetics have a place and I like my Wiggys synthetic bag more than any other that I've tried. Have you crawled inside one? As I've mentioned earlier, I was amazed how the bag tends to fill every nook and cranny. I have the lightweight summer/over bag (which roasted me this past spring). I'm hoping to couple this with my down bag for winter camping as well.

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Hoodoo

I get some pleasure from finding a relentlessly peaceful use for a combative looking knife.
JKM
 
Leef,
I can think of a third explanation. There is more than one way to skin a cat.
wink.gif


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Hoodoo

I get some pleasure from finding a relentlessly peaceful use for a combative looking knife.
JKM
 
jttz,
Just one more point. It's also well-know that all bags, not just synthetics, are damaged by compression. That's why I've been storing my down bags in large garbage bags for the past 30 years. I'd be willing to bet you don't store yours stuffed either. And the reason is...?
wink.gif


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Hoodoo

I get some pleasure from finding a relentlessly peaceful use for a combative looking knife.
JKM
 
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