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I have one bottle, a home brew from a sifu of a friend. But it's almost empty (I have used it sparingly over the years). Wondering if anyone has a suggestion for something affordable but effective. Thanks!
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Anyone Know a Good Dit Da Jow?
- Thread starter David Mary
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There are some recipes on the net, but the ingredients don’t look very familiar.
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We always used the one on the left at home but here's a comparison of another.
plumdragonherbs.com
Zheng Gu Shui Ingredients vs. Dit Da Jow: Which is Best for Injury and Pain?
Zheng Gu Shui is a common herbal liniment used in TCM. Discover the differences between Zheng Gu Shui ingredients and our Dit Da Jow at Plum Dragon Herbs.
plumdragonherbs.com
For awhile now, I’ve been ordering mine from Plum Dragon Herbs. They offer many different types of Dit Da Jow formulas. The one I use in my hand and forearm toughening training is the Ku Yu Cheong Iron Palm formula. I also have their Bruise Juice. Great stuff, and excellent service.
Jim
Jim
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I ended up finding one at dit da jow dot com, and have placed the order. I'll update this thread once it arrives and I've had a chance to try it out.
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This arrived today. Finally had a chance to slow down and give it a try just now. I did some striking in one of my recent training sessions, and my left palm is still quite sore from it, so we'll see how I feel after a few daily applications (it's the one of the left 
).
).This arrived today. Finally had a chance to slow down and give it a try just now. I did some striking in one of my recent training sessions, and my left palm is still quite sore from it, so we'll see how I feel after a few daily applications (it's the one of the left
View attachment 1691901
Cool!
Do you apply it before and after impact training? I was always taught to apply it before AND after, then wait around three hours before washing it off. That allows it time to penetrate and prevent stagnation.
Jim
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In the past I had always done after only. The bottle above actually does say on the other side to apply before and after. Of course, they have a financial interest in saying that. I think it will work just fine if I use it after only, but I may experiment. In any case I am using it for conditioning my hands, not for actual Iron Fist or Iron Palm training.
Cool! Post a follow-up on how it's working! I'm sure you'll do fine. Be aware, though, not to apply Dit Da Jow on broken or cut skin. It would have to heal before resuming training.
A bit of background on traditional methods. The Iron Sand Palm (Tie Sha Zhang) method I practice is less intense than some other methods. I also use the Dit Da Jow on my forearms with the Tie Bi Gong ( Iron Arm) training using a specialized "Iron Arm Hammer."
These names ("Iron" whatever) sound fancy, but in reality, they are simply controlled conditioning methods that develop greater hardness/toughness and density in the area being trained. Iron Arm training has a similar effect to Muay Thai shin conditioning, but for the arms.
Applying the Dit Da Jow before and after such training is traditional. It ensures full penetration, because the specific methods I mentioned can have detrimental physical effects without it. Also, good DDJ formulas also enhance the effects of the conditioning. I knew a guy years ago who messed himself up doing "Iron Palm" wrong by slapping a heavy wooden stool 500 times a day (nobody had taught him that way) without using any DDJ. After awhile, he started experiencing problems with his dexterity and his eyesight. Even if he had used DDJ, I suspect it wouldn't have helped much. He had already been told by his teacher to stop doing it, but he refused to listen. He was only 21 at the time.
Jim
A bit of background on traditional methods. The Iron Sand Palm (Tie Sha Zhang) method I practice is less intense than some other methods. I also use the Dit Da Jow on my forearms with the Tie Bi Gong ( Iron Arm) training using a specialized "Iron Arm Hammer."
These names ("Iron" whatever) sound fancy, but in reality, they are simply controlled conditioning methods that develop greater hardness/toughness and density in the area being trained. Iron Arm training has a similar effect to Muay Thai shin conditioning, but for the arms.
Applying the Dit Da Jow before and after such training is traditional. It ensures full penetration, because the specific methods I mentioned can have detrimental physical effects without it. Also, good DDJ formulas also enhance the effects of the conditioning. I knew a guy years ago who messed himself up doing "Iron Palm" wrong by slapping a heavy wooden stool 500 times a day (nobody had taught him that way) without using any DDJ. After awhile, he started experiencing problems with his dexterity and his eyesight. Even if he had used DDJ, I suspect it wouldn't have helped much. He had already been told by his teacher to stop doing it, but he refused to listen. He was only 21 at the time.
Jim
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Hi Jim, I really appreciate your comments in this thread. I would be interested to hear further suggests regarding training, in particular, methods of conditininong the wrists and tendons. If you want to share ideas here that would be great, but if you are willing to email a number and a preferred time for me to reach you, I would be so grateful for a chance to discuss training methods over the phone. My email is in my sig (turn mobile sideways to landscape mode and it will appear). If not, no worries, you have been very helpful and given me a lot of leads to work with.
Hi, David. I’m glad to have been at least a little helpful to you. If it’s OK in the community forum, I’ll share some points here.
As far as wrists and tendons, do you mean just strengthening overall, or specifically for striking, so your wrist won’t buckle when punching? The wrist strengthening exercise I can think of offhand is using a rolling bar with some weight suspended that you roll up and down, while holding the arms straight ahead at shoulder height. Another method is doing wrist curls with a dumbbell.
Okinawan Karate styles also have Nigiri Game (gripping jars) which they practice holding for grip/finger strengthening. I am NOT an Okinawan Karate practitioner, but many of them do have good training tools adapted from older Chinese methods. I want to get a couple Nigiri Game myself eventually; I‘ve only used some similar jars from Taiwan, which weren’t specifically made for training, and which are slippery, so not as good for training, especially when your hands are sweaty. This might help in tendon strength(?).
For wrist strength for punching, first I practice something I call “fist standing.” Not doing a handstand, but rather in knuckle push-up position, except with the fists only shoulder width and not actually doing push-ups, with the weight on the first two knuckles (index and middle finger knuckles) of each hand, and just holding it similar to planking. I do it on a linoleum floor. I hold it for one minute with vertical fist (palms and thumbs facing each other). Then I rest for one minute, shaking my hands out, then do it again for another minute. If you’re not used to it, start off on a carpeted floor or a yoga mat, and start off on your knees. It also toughens the striking knuckles to a degree, and it does develop calluses. The calluses are just from the weight and pressure. This is part of my hand training, and I do use some DDJ before and after.
If you want, I can share some other stuff later, but keep in mind my training is less extreme than some people’s. And whenever starting such training, it is vital to begin gently. For example, in “Iron Arm” training, I hit it hard now, but the beginning stage is only lightly tapping along the forearm’s boney (ulnar and radial) surfaces and the muscular backs of forearms. Or even lightly slapping the area. If people are feeling pain and bruising in the early stages, it’s too much. It is vital for the body to adjust very gradually before adding force. Slow and gradual. You do not want bruises from the conditioning, nor do you want to develop tendinitis from too much too soon.
Jim
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Jim thanks for this. I practice a lot of these methods, or something similar to them already, as well as a few things not mentioned, such as spike pushups and some mobility drills while holding 2.5 pound plates in a fingers outstretched grip, which really stretches the tendons nicely. But this is the part I am interested in advice on because I have very little experience with it:
Looking to increase the tensile and impact strength of my radius and ulna. I was thinking of using a dowel or a dowel wrapped in a towel for this. If you could share more details on how you do it that would be great.
Looking to increase the tensile and impact strength of my radius and ulna. I was thinking of using a dowel or a dowel wrapped in a towel for this. If you could share more details on how you do it that would be great.
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The other thing is I have skinny wrists and when I make a fist, my tendons really pop out on the underside of my wrist, and just being able to see that has always given me a feeling of vulnerability, even if it's only in my head. So if there is a way to increase soft tissue mass on the underside of my wrist, OR dramatically increase tendon strength, then I would be very interested. I have done lots of grip strength drills, and for over a decade have had greater crush grip strength than almost anyone I have ever met, BUT I still have this:
David, this is the “Iron Arm Conditioning Hammer” I mentioned, and this is mostly what I use to harden my forearms:
Iron Arm Conditioning Hammer — Uechi-Ryu Karate
How prepared is the average martial artist for REAL contact? Whether it be on the tournament floor or on the street, practitioners must be prepared for contact just about anywhere on their body. If they are not, even those incidental bangs can be damaging. Many martial arts programs have toughenin
www.uechiryu-karate.com
On the radial side, I keep about 3” away from the wrist. The method I use, which is my own, is to strike one area 10 times, then move an inch down and so the same, moving down the length of the bone. I do this not only for the ulna and radius, but also the muscular back of the forearm. I do NOT include the palm side of my forearms in this training. I keep my fist closed while striking the forearms; you can also do it open-handed, but I find that making a fist focuses my concentration better. As you progress, you can change which surface of the hammer you strike with. But in the first several weeks, I highly recommend only lightly tapping. It should seem almost too easy. Slow and steady progress is essential. If you get a bruise, you’re hitting too hard. This may sound wimpy, but believe me, it’s not. Also remember to apply DDJ encore and after. I also strike my own forearms together. I also used to do 3-star, which is banging forearms with other practitioners, which I did for many years; but I train alone now. And I don’t consider 3-star a good way to begin this type of training.
The only disadvantage of using the “Iron Arm Hammer” is that it’s loud! It makes a loud clacking sound when it hits, because of its design to provide some needed built-in give. But I really find it an invaluable tool, and you can progress at your own pace.
Jim
David,
TBH, I’m not sure how that would be done, either. Although my tendon isn’t as prominent as that, my arms are not overly thick, either. If I can think of something, I’ll let you know. It sounds like your tendon strength is already well-developed.
Jim
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Jim, thanks for all this, you have given me lots of ideas.