AR M4 style rifle, which one?

B

bitter1

Joined
Mar 3, 2008
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You guys are going to hang me from a tree but now I kind of want an AR now instead of an AK and after two threads and all that great input on how to mod out an AK. Ok what is the best deal out there with a flat top M4 style and possibly a quad rail already included or if you know of a good after market quad rail for cheaper then great. I have heard that the S&W M&P rifles are good ones and have heavier barrels than the Bushmasters, but that is just what the dude at Cabela's said.

Thank you guys and again for putting up with my indecision here.
 
bitter1 said:
You guys are going to hang me from a tree but now I kind of want an AR now instead of an AK and after two threads and all that great input on how to mod out an AK. Ok what is the best deal out there with a flat top M4 style and possibly a quad rail already included or if you know of a good after market quad rail for cheaper then great. I have heard that the S&W M&P rifles are good ones and have heavier barrels than the Bushmasters, but that is just what the dude at Cabela's said.

Thank you guys and again for putting up with my indecision here.
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I'd just grab a Colt and then go shopping for parts (LaRue & Magpul).

TRUST ME ON THIS you don't want to get a rifle thats already decked out, half the fun of owning one is getting to dress it up and shop around for new accessories. I mean lets be honest your going to end up getting stuff for it anyways so its easier just to start with a blank slate and then deck it out from there...Far better then paying more and then gutting the rifle to dress it up the way you like.

Some people get Barbie's Dream House...For the rest of us we get black rifles.
 
Thank you Raccoon good advice right off the bat. And where can I get a flat top colt M4 style I thought that they sold only to LE and Military, then again there is the used market I could shop around Austin does have a decent selection of Gun shops.
 
I'm not going to knock Colt, as Colt makes a fine AR, but one thing to keep in mind when buying a Colt M4 is some accessories/parts for it have to be specifically made for a Colt M4. (They're not hard to find though.) As far as quality goes, Colt is really good though and tend to be nearly perfect in regards to their quality control.

I learned how to shoot AR's with my father's 1970s A1 Colt and it's still functioning great over 30 years later.

My AR is a rifle length Bushmaster I upgraded with a Bravo Company bolt carrier group. It's been flawless for years.

I'm not a carbine fan. I prefer the 20" barrel rifles. I learned to shoot a rifle length AR and could never get used to the shorter length between the front & rear sights on the carbines. They have a nice handy and maneuverable aspect to them though so I can understand why a lot of folks really like 'em.

If you can't find a Colt, there are some other good makers out there such as Lewis Machine & Tool, Bravo Company, LaRue, Sabre Defense, and others who produce some great higher-end upper receiver groups which you can add to your lower receiver of choice and have a great AR.

Or there's other ones, less expensive but still good, like Bushmaster, Stag, and RRA. My brother and I have had no problems of any kind with our Bushies.

I tend to go for the old classic ABC (Armalite, Bushmaster, Colt) lineup. Heck I like pretty much all AR's. :D

I'm going to build my next one. I want a 16" mid length and I want to go with a LMT upper with foliage green MagPul furniture if possible.

AR's are great. They're like a model kit which makes liberals cry.
 
1) Don't buy anything semi auto from ruger, least of all an AR. They can't get their pistols right so its a guarantee that their first entrance into the combat rifle world is going to be fulled with bugs.

2) Unless you are going to be getting in and out of humvees all day long, or are going to be clearing houses don't get an M4. Its less reliable, and harder on the weapon than a 20" A2 with a rifle length gas system and rifle length buffer.

I know that the M4 is the tacticool flavor of the week, but for your first EBR (evil black rifle) the traditional setup is the way to go. After this one you can have a ball.

3) As with many things in life, there isn't a "best deal" in the AR world. Its simply a question of how much quality are you willing to pay for. Stuff like stag and RRA will get you in the door. CMMG runs in the middle ranks. LMT and noveske are at the higher end and colt is the king of the mountain.

Some people want to save money and put together a franken rifle for relatively cheaply. They like it and it works fine. Others, like myself, will pay for colt quality because you never know when Murphy will decide to pay a visit.

At the end of the day, this is something only you will be able to answer because only you know your budget and your preferences for firearms.
 
I've owned a Bushmaster for years, and recently aquired a Stag. Both are great, but the fit and finish of the Stag was a bit better than the Bushmaster.

The Ruger looks promising, but they haven't been having much luck lately in terms of QC.

Any reason why you decided not to get the AK?
 
ElectricZombie said:
The Ruger looks promising, but they haven't been having much luck lately in terms of QC.
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The LCP? SR9? Hardly indicative of overall bad QC. Anyone can make an AR, and their only "innovation" there is the gas piston, which is also not really an innovation. Everything I have read on it is positive.

Personally, I bought an FAL because I don't care for the .556 . . . But I handled the SR-556 and it was one of the Nicest ARs I have seen.
 
Rat Finkenstein said:
1) Nonsense
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I call nonsense on your nonsense.

ElectricZombie said:
I've owned a Bushmaster for years, and recently aquired a Stag. Both are great, but the fit and finish of the Stag was a bit better than the Bushmaster.

The Ruger looks promising, but they haven't been having much luck lately in terms of QC.

Any reason why you decided not to get the AK?
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Are fit and finish important to you bitter1? or durability and longevity?

Rat Finkenstein said:
The LCP? SR9? Hardly indicative of overall bad QC. Anyone can make an AR, and their only "innovation" there is the gas piston, which is also not really an innovation. Everything I have read on it is positive.

Personally, I bought an FAL because I don't care for the .556 . . . But I handled the SR-556 and it was one of the Nicest ARs I have seen.
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Can you really make a good judgement call on a NEW product just by handling and seeing one? I like to subscribe to track record.....ruger has lots of recalls right?

Sorry rat not picking on you just pointing out some points for the op to ponder. I'm no expert but I get to read threads like this repeated daily and frankly I would rather stab myself in the eyes with a toothpick soaked in jalapeno juice.
 
Wolf_1989 said:
I'm not going to knock Colt, as Colt makes a fine AR, but one thing to keep in mind when buying a Colt M4 is some accessories/parts for it have to be specifically made for a Colt M4. (They're not hard to find though.) As far as quality goes, Colt is really good though and tend to be nearly perfect in regards to their quality control.
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eh just because i like to learn new things every day. can you explain the parts that are specific to colt? if breakdown pins are what you are referring to i would hardly call this an issue unless you use your rifle as a pulley on a zip line.
 
tinman44 said:
I call nonsense on your nonsense.


Can you really make a good judgement call on a NEW product just by handling and seeing one? I like to subscribe to track record.....ruger has lots of recalls right?

Sorry rat not picking on you just pointing out some points for the op to ponder. I'm no expert but I get to read threads like this repeated daily and frankly I would rather stab myself in the eyes with a toothpick soaked in jalapeno juice.
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No expert, sure. Nor is the guy above spouting nonsensical generalizations. On the other hand, I read the reviews and have firsthand experience that voids whathisname's generalization about ruger's pistols and rifles. The 10/22 is about the most reliable and popular Semi auto 22 there is. I have had a few Semi-auto pistols from Ruger and both were more reliable than the Glock I had. In fact the next gun I buy will be another Ruger 22/45, for cheap pistol practice. On the one hand, I can see what you are saying about holding off on new designs in case something is wrong, but there is nothing new about the AR15. The fact that it has an adjustable gas system puts it at the top of my list if I was considering an AR. I have no use for the inherently flawed direct impingement system- but that's another subject.
 
tinman44 said:
i knew better than to post, good luck bitter1
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If you are going to offhandedly poopoo another man's suggestion, you should be prepared to discuss the subject.

You say ruger has a lot of recalls, which is not statistically accurate. Meanwhile I could have said "AR's have a reputation for being finnicky and unreliable". . . which is not entirely true, but more accurate in some ways. Due to the high level of cleaning/maintenance required by the DI gas system, people have jams more often. They can overheat and jam, and every company in the world(slight exaggeration) makes an AR, so lots of them probably are going to be lemons. . . unless the argument is that the AR design is inherently reliable, in which case, you are saying that the Ruger will be better than 90% of AR's on the market, since a Gas Piston is far more reliable than direct impingement. :D
 
bitter1 said:
You guys are going to hang me from a tree but now I kind of want an AR now instead of an AK and after two threads and all that great input on how to mod out an AK. Ok what is the best deal out there with a flat top M4 style and possibly a quad rail already included or if you know of a good after market quad rail for cheaper then great. I have heard that the S&W M&P rifles are good ones and have heavier barrels than the Bushmasters, but that is just what the dude at Cabela's said.

Thank you guys and again for putting up with my indecision here.
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My advice would be to check out some of the AR forums such as www.m4carbine.net and www.ar15.com and read, expecially the stickies. You'll be able to read first hand accounts of every brand mentioned here plus alot more. Reading is cheap and it can make you a more informed consumer.
 
Once again I will mention the DPMS Sportical, available for under $750.00 everywhere. At the $900 price point the DPMS Panther has some additional things included for those who don't want to have to shop around for sights and it has a FA as well, tho I think these are almost unneeded today. Personally in the past 30 years of shooting an AR I don't think I have ever used the FA on a rifle.

The S&W M&P line has received great reviews as well and as noted you can find the Colts for about $1500.00 used. However I am not at all fond of the collapsible stocks. Sure they look tacticool but they are not nearly as comfortable to shoot (especially if you have facial hair...lol) and are too low to maintain a proper stock weld when using a scope or carrying handle mounted iron sights. Of course they do make it easier for small statured folks to shoot the rifle but even my 5'4" ex likes the fixed stock better.

For mags I have been using the Brownells and Stoners...haven't run into a bad magazine yet and between Pop and I we have proofed about 20 of them.

Concerning Ruger...I too am a little leery given the number of recalls that have cropped up lately, it seems as if they are letting the customers do the final QC on their products. I would have a tough time buying one until it had been on the market for at least a year. That and I still haven't completely forgiven them for betraying gun owners with the AWB from the Clinton years.
 
JTC said:
My advice would be to check out some of the AR forums such as www.m4carbine.net and www.ar15.com and read, expecially the stickies. You'll be able to read first hand accounts of every brand mentioned here plus alot more. Reading is cheap and it can make you a more informed consumer.
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This. JTC hit the nail on the head. This is the probably the best thing that you can do at this point in time. Read, read, read... and then read so more. Find other forums geared to the AR-15 and read more. When you think you've read it all, read the stickies again, and read more. Learn as much as you can about the platform. One recommendation: If you have questions, try to research the question before asking (especially on AR15.com).

I lurked on various AR-15 forums for years before acquiring my first black rifle. And I didn't start posting on the forums until after I had my gun put together.

What I suggest is you first consider what you're going to use you gun for. Will you be going to the range 6 times per year, are you going to join a club and maybe pursue CMP shoots, or are you shooting for competing in 3-gun? Once you have the intended use of the weapon figured out, decide on a rough dollar amount you'd like to spend to get started. Then, begin your research. If your AR is only going to be for fun at the range, you don't necessarily need to shell out big bucks for top-of-the-line equipment. However, if you the $$, then the sky is your limit.


And since you've switched from the AK to an AR, perhaps you'd like to consider the M1A. :D
 
I have a RRA and really like it but if I had the money (:grumpy: which I don't) I would get a Sig.
 
bitter1 said:
Thank you Raccoon good advice right off the bat. And where can I get a flat top colt M4 style I thought that they sold only to LE and Military, then again there is the used market I could shop around Austin does have a decent selection of Gun shops.
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Now I'll just toss this out there...You could build your own...

Noveske Upper, Spikes lower, Larue rail, Magpul stock and mags, Timney trigger/hammer...Or whatever floats your boat.

All your going to need is a FFL that can recieve a few parts and the rest you can have shipped to your doorstep.
 
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