Are Bulldog blades really hand forged?

Dijos

Dijos

Joined
Nov 20, 2001
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I just read that they hand hammer their blades. Is this even possible by today's cost? Anyway, it sure makes me look at them differently.
 
Well, their literature says "hammer forged" but not "hand forged"....a subtle differnce. Yes, as far as I know they are hammer forged, using power hammers not hand hammers.

My understanding is, that for factory-made knives, "hand" forging was replaced by power trip hammer forging in the early 1900's. Then the whole idea of forged blades was dropped in the early 1930's as uniform rolled steel from rolling mills replaced the "cast" steel - ingots and bar stock. At least with US manufacturers, all hammer drop forging of blades was gone by WWII.

It is indeed amazing that the Olbertz factory can, in this day, still produce forged knife blades, even if it is done by power trip hammer forging rather than by hand forging.
 
It seems to me that the original 1st generation Bulldogs had something about hand forged or hand hammered stamped or etched on the blades. It has been awhile since I have seen one and don't really quite remember. I lost all my knife books ( couldn't have been bed sheets or something ) during my move across country and I am without reference.
Greg
 
I've just taken a look at my current edc - a Bulldog Seductress in stagbone. It says 'Hand Made' under the bulldog stamp on one side of the main blade. Close inspection of the blades shows what I call 'satin marks' where the blade looks like it was polished differently in that spot, which I associate with forging. Most of my really old kitchen knives have this.
I believe that Bulldog knives are hammer forged, then hand assembled & finished.
 
They are hammer forged, but don't be fooled, the ones Parker (now Buzz Parker is running Parker) is importing are not the same quality of the original bull dog brand knives (not even close). Just like the Hen and Rooster's that frost is importing now are made by boker, but these bokers for some reason are not the best quality (some are okay though).

Most of the bull dog ones now have partially sharpened blades and are more for "show" then using. Anyone who has any of the original bulldogs can see the difference between the two.
 
Dumb question... when did this change occur? What year?

I've got a number of Bulldogs, from the late 80's up to current manufacture. Kinda curious which are the "good years".
 
I'd like to know too! I have 5 bulldog whittlers. one 3 1/4", & 2 ea. of 3 3/4" & 4 1/4"
One of the large ones came in a black bulldog box, & the rest came in the blue style boxes. Of them all, the worst (badly ground, poorer finish) was one of the medium ones in a blue box.
 
The 1st generation Bulldogs were built in the 1980's. Up to 1987 I believe. They are fine knives no doubt. When Parker bought the rights to the brand and the factory inventory (the place was going broke) he used the parts of the original knives to build more of them along with other newer Bulldog knives. Didn't make sense not to use the inventory parts. Now, I am going by memory again here. The original Bulldogs had the year of production stamped on the tangs for the most part. Parker used the same blades, and other parts, to build new knives but changed the handle material or shield or something else so that you could identify his newer built knives from the original 1st generation knives. This is where is gets tricky. You need to have some sort of reference to identify the originals so that you can see if what is being passed along as an orginal actually is. I have never known Jim Parker to claim that the knives he had built were original 1st generation knives. Other people seem to have come up with that idea to sell them. If you have handled any original first generation pieces you can tell the difference right away. The knives that I have seen being passed along as original 1st generation are actually 2nd, 3rd or 4th is you care to keep count. You can have a Bulldog knife with a 1984 tang stamp but that doesn't make the knife an original 1st generation. It could just be that the blade is. The currently produced knives are less than what they were a few years ago I do agree. Much like any knife being produced today that has roots from years ago. I still find them to be about the best bet in production made slipjoints. Once you put your own edge on, they perform great. I don't know if they have stainless steel patterns and I have no experience with them. One other thing. Just because a Bulldog knife has the 2 fighting dogs tang stamp doesn't make them 1st generation. That is the original Bulldog tang stamp but it has been used on newer knives alot. The original 2 fighting dogs tang stamp is a good, clear, solid stamp and easy to identify from a newer piece. Any knife with the 2 standing dog stamp or single dog stamp are newer knives.
Greg
 
Other knives that come out of the Olbertz factory are forged, too. Like Eye Brand. I don't have any Bulldogs yet, but I have several Eye Brand, and they are good knives. Sometimes a little rough on the fit & finish, but they have great blades that are very well ground.
 
Just a little detail to clear up here. I always thought hammer forged on Bulldog knives meant drop-hammered, or trip hammered. You put a properly heated bar of steel under it, and the device drops on it, shaping the blade, and possibly strengthening the steel. Saves some grinding I imagine. I'm somewhat ignorant of the details, but this seems like it at least touches on the original question of this thread. Please help me out here, and clarify if you know!
 
The other thing is hammer forged a brand or copyright phrase? In other words is it used as marketing but doesn't really describe the blade?
 
waynorth,
you are correct, that is what hammer forged in bulldog brand means (using a trip-hammer, etc.). Hammer forged can literally mean "hammer forged", but these days its usually used in those terms. Most, these days use the term "hand forged" to describe a blade that is forged by hand, using a hammer (usually modern custom makers use this term).

by the way, dave, there was a "hammer brand" (line of pocket knives) many years ago.
 
Hmm… I’ve been wondering about these questions myself lately.

Though I don’t own any Bulldogs, I do have a bunch of Eye Brand knives. They have a sort of irregularly shaped distal taper that seems to be a distinguishing characteristic of hammer-forged blades. It’s subtle, but if you look at the blade either spine or edge on, you can see that the sides aren’t perfectly flat as they taper towards the point.

A page on the Olbertz website says: “We demand the best, which means we only use hand-forged blades made of high-grade carbon or stainless steel.” I can’t imagine though that they mean a single smith hammers blades out by hand on an old fashioned anvil. It seems much more like likely that they would use some kind of power hammer to get the basic shape before moving on to the grinding.

There’s also a process called drop forging, or closed-die forging, where hot metal is basically just sandwitched between two halves of a die and molded into shape. It would be pretty misleading to claim that a blade is hammer forged though when it’s actually drop forged.

I came across an unrelated site on the net where they advertise a line of kitchen knives they sell as being “drop forged by hand”, which sounds like a major oxymoron to me. :confused: LOL! I guess these terms can be used somewhat liberally for marketing purposes, as people are simply impressed to hear that the blade is forged.
 
Okay, let me see if I get this straight. Parker's Bulldog Brand knives are made in Olbertz? The whole line? There aren't different levels made different places?

Greg, what I'm hearing is that you think they are a good knife and a good value for the money? Current productions I mean. Recognizing of course that they aren't comparable to the old Bulldogs. Any other's feel that way?

The reason I'm asking is that I recently bought a knife from James Parker off ebay (another bone handled Rem Daddy Barlow, MIB and at a really good price) and he included a catalog. There are some nice looking Bulldogs in there and the prices seem good. So naturally, I'm suspicious. Also, I natrually come to this group for info and feedback. :D
Amos
 
Amos;

Current Bulldog knives are sold at prices that are very reasonable....I'm not sure how they can sell them so cheaply in general.

The only exceptions to Olbertz manufacture that I know of are two patterns that were actually made by Queen Cutlery in the 1990's.
 
Knifeaholic,

Thanks for the quick feedback. The prices made me wonder. That and with the current Chinese knives using matchstrike nail pulls I've almost come to associate that and low price with Chinese manufacture, but not carbon steel. The Bulldogs do have some nice looking handle materials, at least from the color pics in the catalog. Some of the celluloids are interesting as are the buffalo horn stocks, the mastadon ivory and the giraffe bone. Stag is always nice too. :D

Having a very limited knife budget well made, good looking knives at good prices appeal to me. Especially when they are carbon steel. Even if I collect them primarily for handle material, pattern, or looks, the knives still need to be made well and to have good, usable blades.
 
If your drop forged was actuated by manually (e.g. by hand), then you could call a knife hand-forged and drop-forged, but probably not hammer-forged. :)
 
But the machine is a trip hammer (of sorts), so you'd really have to say "hand-tripped hammer forged". Then you could add left or right, or maybe foot pedal - forged! ;) :D
 
Amos. I do like the newer Bulldogs as well. I have no experience with any of their stainless steel or if they even use it. I don't know. But the carbon steel blades hold an edge great. This a newer Sowbelly that I carried for quite a while. Still do from time to time. I put a razor sharp edge on it and it stays that way for quite a while. I have shaved down branches and cut lots of cardboard and all sorts of stuff that you should be able to use a knife for and it stays sharp. A few strokes on a ceramic rod from time to time is all I need do unless I wait too long and need to re-profile it. The steel is pretty hard so once you do get your edge on it, it stays that way for quite some time. If you cut apples or oranges the finish will darken. A dab of Flitz and it is like new again. I used the spey blade to trim my cigars. That should tell you something about the edge.
Greg
 
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