Are damascus knives better than the others?

golok

golok

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Oct 20, 2000
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There is a general notion among collectors that damascus steel knives are better in terms of performance than knives made of other steels.

I am not sure. What I do know is damascus knives are more expensive. But better? I think there will be some who will beg to differ.

It is said that damascus steel because of its combination of metals has "microscopic teeth" at its edge, that's why it generally cuts better.

But what about the other aspects?

In terms of overall performance, would it be safe to conclude that damascus steel knives are not necessarily better than knives made from other steels?
 
Golok - it all depend's on the maker. the variable heat treat on Damascus is the big key to why it would be considered "better" a stainless blade can not be heat treated to give it any "Flex" so if you try to bend it at all it will snap at about 10 - 15 degrees of flex, yes Damascus does require a little more care for "Rust protection " but many maker know that a plain carbon knife can cut better in most cases than Stainless. yes Damascus gives a Micro serated edge . I don't know if this makes them " Better" / Stainless Damascus is a area i can't help you beacuse i don't make it yet .
this is just my Opinion .
 
Originally posted by Pinoy Knife
Golok - a stainless blade can not be heat treated to give it any "Flex" so if you try to bend it at all it will snap at about 10 - 15 degrees of flex, "
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That is not correct, the knife in my avatar was made of 1/8" 440C stock just for the purpose of disproving those types of rumors.
It could easily be flexed like a sword, just by hand.
Jens Anso bends stainless over 40 degrees(and it returns to true). He's big, and it is a tough job for him to do this, and it didn't break.

No offense is meant by any of this, but it's time to put all those early 20th century rumors to bed.;)

As to Golok's question,IMO, NO!!:D
 
Ok I will give that low Rc Thin Stainless will flex ! what you said made me think of a Fillet Blade . if you know a "trick " i would love to learn it ! every time i have tried to "Flex" any stainless above 1/8 it snap's. No Dis respect intended or taken .:footinmou
 
Originally posted by Pinoy Knife
Ok I will give that low Rc Thin Stainless will flex ! /B]
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That knife has an HRC of 58/59. It was heat treated by Paul Bos.

All the bad hype about stainless came about as the direct result of improper heat treat. Starting with the cutlery companys in the early 20th century, right up to today.
Stainless steel cannot be heat treated like a lot of tool steels. It does not respond well to it at all. They are complex alloys, and to get the best out of them, they demand professional heat treat, plus cryogenics.

People have forged SS, but at the end of the day, all you have is a really expensive knife that gained nothing by the process.
And on top of that, the bladesmith is exposing him/herself to heavy metal poisoning because of metal vapor brought about by the forging process.:eek: ;)
 
Yeah, Jack Crain forges 440C sometimes. The stainless swords he made for the movie "First Knight" were forged. He forges stainless guards for his fantasy knives too so he can get those neat shapes. I've seen a couple of his war hammers that had forged stainless heads too. Pretty cool stuff.
 
It all depends on the maker....I agree totally with that! Damascus steel, properly forged, makes one hell of a knife steel, I know that from experience! My two cents.
 
Damascus looks cooler! I carry a 154cm folder and a cable damascus neck knife and there really isn't any noticeable performance differences. That is until it's time to sharpen them, then the damascus wins hands down.
 
I agree with Mikes statemant BIG TIME! on Stainless... Damascus does look great, but I wouldnt say it makes the BEST knife as far as performance by any means...
 
I dont recall anybody doing the ABS cut and bend test with a stainless knife. Yes I know the ABS wouldnt hear of it but has anybody tried it just to see what happens? Im just asking?
 
Originally posted by Bruce Bump
I dont recall anybody doing the ABS cut and bend test with a stainless knife. Yes I know the ABS wouldnt hear of it but has anybody tried it just to see what happens? Im just asking?
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Bruce, as Jerry Hossom would say, I'm not p1ssing up that rope.
You are well aware, I'm sure, that the ABS tests were originally setup for mostly one purpose, to exclude stainless steel.

Stainless will not bend 90 degree, even in the annealed state, nor is it designed to. It is also designed not to need forging.
As with anything, there are trade offs. To get corrosion resistance, you give up some flexibility.
But, anyone that can bend a good stainless blade out in the bush(without a cheater bar), to the extent that it breaks, is doing something they shouldn't be doing with any knife, or is already in more trouble than ANY knife will get them out of. ;)
 
I don't want to start no trouble here, but I believe the thread was started to get opinions on damascus steel. Its seemed to take a right turn like a lot of the threads do.

But anyway. I like both plain high carbon steels and damascus carbon steel knives.As for stainless I have no experience with it, because I always figured you needed different equipment to heat treat it properly and until I could attain that equipment I would stay where I was.

As for the performance of damascus, I've had some really nice replies from customers that have bought damascus knives from me claiming that they're new knives performed better than any knife they've ever owned.
But I've also had replies like that from customers that have purchased plain high carbon steel knives too. So I think its up to the customers, they all have different ideas of what a knife is for. I perform the same tests on all my knives plain or damascus steel, but the size of the knife, thickness of the blade, type grind, etc. all makes a difference on how the knife will chop or cut, and sence I try not to make any 2 knives the same its realy hard to determine which is best. But myself, I really like damascus, it perorms really well for what I want from a knife and it seems to have more charactor to me, I guess its because of the time needed to produce it. But thats just my opinion.

Bill
 
Two points about SS and Damascus, just from the above discusion. One is that Damascus appears nonetheless to bend more. So chock that up to Damascus.

Also it's mentioned that ABS standards are designed to exclude SS. Whether true or not that also seems to imply damascus/non-stainless blades are different as relates to some performance characteristics.

Whether any of this is better will depend on your criterion.

Is there any serious evidence that the patterned edge of a Damascus blade translates into saw teeth. This seems doubtful on the face of it. Saw teeth are in any case highly specific to a task at hand. Would you buy your spyderco if the teeth on the edge where 5 times their current size, or diffent one from the other along the edge? What guarantee do we have the different weld patterns even have the "teeth" going in the right direction, or are in any way going to work in conjunction with whatever polish is applied to the edge by any one of a bunch of different sharpening tools, it seems too hit and miss.

It would seem that the main advantage of any to damascus, would show up in the field in which it was originaly developed. Swords wacking away at each other. If your sword is either a lot softer or a lot harder than your opponents, it might turn out badly for you. so the damascus process covers the bases (pure speculation). One thing we don't seem to have a lot of knowledge of is how SS swords perform in all out combat.
 
Damascus maybe better or maybe not but it is interesting to behold and own. Most collectors have damascus knives as well as straight steel and also stainless. I dont have anything against stainless knives. In fact for my local hunters I make a nice little ats-34 and bg-42 knife. also have a few cpm440v blanks left over. I still send them off to Paul Bos for his magic. I think it is common knowledge that the CPM steels are very very hard to out perform but I just love damascus and with the right combination of new steels and heat-treatment it makes a great performer. There are also stainless damascus with the best of both worlds, good looks and edge holding.
 
Damacusis is beatiful, and even this is a matter of taste.
I do not like this "pricess lace" knife personally.

The matter is of course complicated and judged case by case.

However, I think it is honest to say that very generally speaking many makers are proud to get sometimes! damascus as good as non damascus.

This should tell something!

pig
 
I have Kevin Cashen's "General Sherman" competition cutting knife (the one that won the ABS cutting competition at the Batson Bladesmithing Symposium in Tannehill).

It is 160 layer O1/L6. One of the reasons that Kevin made a competition knife out of Damascus was simply to make the point that Damascus was perfectly capable of competing with homogeneous steels in a setting that would far outstrip typical customer use.

sherman.jpg


At the other end of the spectrum (the not too smart user end of the spectrum where I hang out), I'd say that edge geometry would dwarf steel selection for most tests.

In other words your choice of bevel angle dwarfs Damascus versus S30V for typical performance criteria. Picking a steel wasn't nearly as important for me as giving up on freehand and switching to an EdgePro and a Tormek (both jigged sharpening systems).
 
No best, generally speaking. All things must be taken into consideration. Either can beat out each other when you employ the right tools, materials and techniques.

However, when it comes to pure performance, mono steels are a superior foundation to build from in such a pursuit.
 
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