Are non-stainless kitchen knives safe for food prep?

W

Wolf7

Joined
Jul 11, 2006
Messages
220
Need advice, recently I broke my cheap Walmart bought Chinese stainless kitchen paring knife:( that I had for over 15 years!
I bought block set when I moved into my first apartment after college, it served me well enough for all these years.

Since, kitchen knife bug hasn't bit me yet, I was looking around to replace it with another cheap one.
I do spend my money on ZT's, BM's and SOG's both folders and fixed, that bug bitten me long ago!

Anyway, I was rummaging through an old toolbox that I inherited when we bought house and I found old great little 4" parring knife!

Inscription on it is "Sabatier" probably manufacturer, made in France and something I can't make out, it's all covered in stains.

Here is problem, it's made from mystery steel that stains and rust easily:eek::confused:.
I was cutting fruit with it and I could see new stains forming on blade where slices touched it as I was looking on it:mad:
It has metallic smell and fruit had metallic taste:barf: after being cut!
After few weeks of storage in wooden block without use it appears to have grown rust stains near tang area where it was touching wood!
It was wiped clean and dry before storing it!

Does anybody know what type of steel was used in knives made by "Sabatier"?
Is it even safe to continue using it for food prep? Don't want to get rust poisoning:barf:

PS I went to 99c store and bought 3" stainless parring knife for $1, f & f is crap, handle scales were wobbly from store but electric tape fixed it right up, blade is ok, handle is comfortable shape. Sharpening was done by monkey, sharp but rough, uneven grinds. I fixed that by regrinding that on my KOWS belt sharpener, its wicked sharp now!

I don't understand why would anybody make kitchen knives out of steel that rusts and stains easily, it gives food bad smell and taste:barf:
Either, it's very old before stainless was used commonly in kitchen cutlery or French understand nothing about what is needed in kitchen cutlery steel:rolleyes:
 
Been using carbon steel kitchen knives all my life (70+). Perfectly safe (that's all we had in the old days). Old Hickory are among the best IMHO.
Rich
 
Wolf7 said:
Need advice, recently I broke my cheap Walmart bought Chinese stainless kitchen paring knife:( that I had for over 15 years!
I bought block set when I moved into my first apartment after college, it served me well enough for all these years.

Since, kitchen knife bug hasn't bit me yet, I was looking around to replace it with another cheap one.
I do spend my money on ZT's, BM's and SOG's both folders and fixed, that bug bitten me long ago!

Anyway, I was rummaging through an old toolbox that I inherited when we bought house and I found old great little 4" parring knife!

Inscription on it is "Sabatier" probably manufacturer, made in France and something I can't make out, it's all covered in stains.

Here is problem, it's made from mystery steel that stains and rust easily:eek::confused:.
I was cutting fruit with it and I could see new stains forming on blade where slices touched it as I was looking on it:mad:
It has metallic smell and fruit had metallic taste:barf: after being cut!
After few weeks of storage in wooden block without use it appears to have grown rust stains near tang area where it was touching wood!
It was wiped clean and dry before storing it!

Does anybody know what type of steel was used in knives made by "Sabatier"? A soft, simple carbon steel, its a proprietary
Is it even safe to continue using it for food prep? Don't want to get rust poisoning:barf:
Some very high profile chefs use carbon steel, rust poisoning?

PS I went to 99c store and bought 3" stainless parring knife for $1, f & f is crap, handle scales were wobbly from store but electric tape fixed it right up, blade is ok, handle is comfortable shape. Sharpening was done by monkey, sharp but rough, uneven grinds. I fixed that by regrinding that on my KOWS belt sharpener, its wicked sharp now!

I don't understand why would anybody make kitchen knives out of steel that rusts and stains easily, it gives food bad smell and taste:barf:
Carbon steel sharpens easier for most.
Either, it's very old before stainless was used commonly in kitchen cutlery or French understand nothing about what is needed in kitchen cutlery steel:rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Go tell that to Bob Kramer, Murray Carter, etc.

The most exclusive, high end kitchen knives in the $4000-8000
Are carbon steel knives.


I'm not going to argue that carbon is better, just a heads up

Good luck
 
Nothing wrong with carbon steel kitchen knives, as long as you follow the proper care and maintenance. Sabatier is a well-known (well, to some I guess) maker of quality cutlery.

From the Sabatier web site:

The whole knife is forged in a single mass of CARBON steel. The steel, Rockwell 54-56 HRC, is tempered, ground and polished crosswise to produce a high-quality tool, great cutting power, cutting hardness and balance. POM handles are manually set and mounted on the tang using three through rivets. From forging to packaging, we garantee that all our operations are performed in the Thiers region in FRANCE by skilled workers to ensure a professional quality craft finish. A Carbon-Steel knife has exceptional cutting power, but it requires special maintenance. When using or washing your carbon-steel knife, wipe it dry with care to avoid the rust . Never put carbon-steel knives in the dishwasher. In use, the steel can change colour. This is quite normal.
Click to expand...
 
First off it's good looking knife, BUT I'm not professional chef so I would never pay $3.9K for it!:eek:
It's hand made, great, but honestly, I don't see justification for that price, is it made of adamantium or some fancy meteorites, gold, diamonds?
Does it chop food by itself without human hand wielding it?

Second, my only concern is with carbon steel knife giving food disgusting metallic taste and smell:barf:

I would love to know if that fancy $4k knife gives food metalic taste and smell? Or is it only old cheap carbon ones that do so?

Also, over the centuries a lot of people died due to rust poisoning infecting blood in battle injuries or even accidental cuts:grumpy: so it is concern if rust transferred on food!

As I mentioned in OP this is an old French kitchen knife with some kind of mystery steel:confused: maybe they used to add lead or asbestos, etc to the mix WTF knows, how safe it is to use on food now????

This is not a bushcraft knife for wood chopping, so I'm NOT concerned with edge retention, ease of sharpening, toughness etc.
All I'm concerned with is food safety and taste /smell it leaves on food!

Have you ever opened metallic can of something and food inside was contaminated by unpleasant metallic taste transferred from cans metallic lining? Often that happens with canned pineapples, peaches, pears etc!
That is what food taste like after I cut it with this carbon knife:barf:
 
jc57 said:
Nothing wrong with carbon steel kitchen knives, as long as you follow the proper care and maintenance. Sabatier is a well-known (well, to some I guess) maker of quality cutlery.

From the Sabatier web site:When using or washing your carbon-steel knife, wipe it dry with care to avoid the rust . Never put carbon-steel knives in the dishwasher. In use, the steel can change colour. This is quite normal.
Click to expand...

I always dry off with towel ALL my knives no matter what steel they are made off!

I don't mind steel changing color after use, BUT I do mind unpleasant taste/smell it leaves on food:barf:
 
Yes, perfectly safe.

As others have said, Sabatier is a fairly well known brand. Should be just fine :).

The "change of color" you're seeing is called a "patina". This is what is known as a "good" form of rust (it prevents the bad, red, flaky rust). The patina builds up over time, and helps protect the blade. Additionally, this forms a bit of a barrier, and significantly reduces/removes the "metalic taste" that you're talking about.

I've only had that happen a few times, with my opinels while eating apples. Each time it was when the knife was brand new, and had no patina. Additionally, it happened when I used the knife for a few minutes, set it down, and then resumed using it after 5-15 minutes. What this means to me is that the patina is forming, but not allowed to build up yet, so the part thats oxidizing hasn't had time to "stick" or "dry" onto the metal, and all comes off on the food.

So with my opinels, I've noticed that 1) if I have a patina on the knife I notice no smell/taste difference, and 2) if I wipe the knife dry after I finish actively using it, I also get no taste/smell.

Anyway, good luck man, just know that you're not going to get rust poisoning :).
 
There are plenty of fine stainless steel kitchen knives out there if you prefer them. Many do. I don't think I have a single carbon steel knife in my kitchen at home.

I wasn't recommending them, just answering your question about whether they are safe. I believe that once a patina (the discoloration) has fully formed, they tend to stop imparting a metallic taste to food. This is due to a coating of black oxide that forms. Some people force the initial patina by sticking the knife in a potato overnight, or dipping the blade in hot white vinegar until it blackens, and then washing it off and buffing any excess oxide off with a paper towel or cloth.

if they rust, take a little fine steel wool to them and polish it off, or even use some metal polish on the blade. Maybe apply some light food-grade mineral oil or even olive or canola oil to the blades prior to storage. Or just pitch it and get a new stainless paring knife.
 
The Opinel #112 (stainless paring knife), and Victorinox fibrox paring knives are both excellent, and usually cost somewhere around $6-10. If the carbon steel ends up not working out for you, and you want a good paring knife on the cheap, I'd go with one of those :).
 
I only use carbon knives at my sushi jobs, but considering a small stainless petty for cutting lemons.

Once your carbon knife has patina built up, it should not transfer any taste to your food.
Sushi chefs do this thing with onions to see if the patina is working, they'll cut onions and if the onions change color, it is from the reaction from the steel and will need patina.
Most will wrap knife with paper towel and soak in any acidic juice; vinegar lemon juice etc for about 10 to 15 minutes until it looks dark. Then you wash clean and use.
 
Wolf7 said:
Also, over the centuries a lot of people died due to rust poisoning infecting blood in battle injuries or even accidental cuts:grumpy: so it is concern if rust transferred on food!
Click to expand...

FWIW, if you're thinking of tetanus, it's not caused by rust, but by bacteria:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetanus
Also:
https://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000615.htm

A rusty knife by itself will not cause tetanus. It would have to have that particular bacteria on it. As for battlefield injuries and deaths following them, again, bacteria, infection, no antibiotics, etc.
 
Sure...

[video=youtube;txpNORZT238]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txpNORZT238[/video]
 
Charlie Mike said:
Sure...

[video=youtube;txpNORZT238]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txpNORZT238[/video]
Click to expand...
CM, it seems the low density of the titanium is offset by the thickness of the stock and the fact that most of the metal is at full thickness.

How was it to grind the bevel? My only experience grinding titanium was frustratingly slow. While it was pretty soft, it just didn't want to abrade away like steel does. In any case, rust won't be a problem.

If you get it back later for resharpening, please post a report about how the edge wears. Most of us have zero experience with blades of titanium.

And congrats on 23 months sober!
 
Grinding Ti is NOT fun. It tends to skip/grab on the belt. The buyer loves it and wants me to make a matching pairing knife.
 
Charlie Mike said:
Sure...

[video=youtube;txpNORZT238]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txpNORZT238[/video]
Click to expand...
CM, it seems the low density of the titanium is offset by the thickness of the stock and the fact that most of the metal is at full thickness.

How was it to grind the bevel? My only experience grinding titanium was frustratingly slow. While it was pretty soft, it just didn't want to abrade away like steel does. In any case, rust won't be a problem.

If you get it back later for resharpening, please post a report about how the edge wears. Most of us have zero experience with blades of titanium.

And congrats on 23 months sober!
 
Speaking of kitchen knives; anyone here use victorinox fibrox knives? I personally love them. But wonder what ya'll think. Obviously is a bargain blade, but I've spent far more money on kitchen blades that were total crap in comparison.
 
The Fibrox handled knives are very good, and a fantastic value, too. Like you said, they'll outcut knives costing much more. Those people understand blade geometry.
 
As far taste goes.

This chef is using a carbon steel knife on raw food and gets a 3 Michelin star rating.
https://youtu.be/robvvJZkfcU

But he wipes the blade before he sets it down.

I have a sabatier carbon utility knife with a black patina from age. The knife is old.

I've used it on food. Can't taste the difference.

the blade might taste different then the stainless.

Idk,

I haven't licked it yet hahahaha
 
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