Are Pakistan-made Bowie knives safe to use?

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Viper2

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I have read several posts on these forums that all Pakistan-made Bowie knives are dangerous to use. Is this really true? If so, then why do the various Timber Rattler large Bowies (full tang models) get so many positive reviews as to their solid build and durability? Can these thick full tang knives actually fall apart during use? Is a Case Bowie or Western W49 really that much better?

How much of these statements against Pakistan-made knives are really true? Or it is mostly just knife-snobbery? I mean many people in poor countries around the world must be using knives of supposed "poor quality" everyday during their day-to-day tasks, and I doubt they sit around reading the scientific stats on different steels, handle materials, etc., or even know that companies like Ka-Bar or ESEE exist.

I am not trying to be condescending. I am totally new to knife collecting and that's why I ask these questions. However, some of the things I read on knife collectors forums seem highly exaggerated or at the very least, extremely nit-picky. Am I wrong?

Any responses will be appreciated.

Thank you.
 
You may find plenty of knife snobs on this forum as well as others, but I think from everyone you might ask, the answer would be a resounding "No, they are not safe to use".
 
res1cue said:
You may find plenty of knife snobs on this forum as well as others, but I think from everyone you might ask, the answer would be a resounding "No, they are not safe to use".
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So are you saying that every single Bowie knife on this earth that is made in Pakistan (and shipped to America for sale) is fragile and will fall apart during use? If so, how do you know this?
 
Playing devils advocate, not all pakistani made Bowies (or whatever knife shape you want) are dangerous to use, some of them even use the the steels they say they use. From what I understand AE Damascus is pretty good and does actually consist of 15N20 and 1080. The problem is there are a myriad of makers over there making pretty looking (& very cheap) damascus out of any old steel. That and a (deserved reputation) for extremely variable quality control have meant that most people have been disappointed one too many times to bother any more.
I now tend to use pakistani/indian damascus for fittings, where it does a lovely job without compromising safety.
 
Viper2 said:
So are you saying that every single Bowie knife on this earth that is made in Pakistan (and shipped to America for sale) is fragile and will fall apart during use? If so, how do you know this?
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I am saying enough crappy bowies come from Pakistan are blades that I value my fingers and body enough, that I am not going to risk it. Especially when safer and sturdier alternatives are readily available by reputable companies at very reasonable prices. For a big fixed blade made by one of the major companies, you don't have to spend more than 30 or 40 bucks. You, of course, are free to do whatever with your fingers and other body parts. I just am willing to pay 15 or 20 more bucks for peace of mind. And I am willing to pay even more for fun.

You might be surprised at what you can get for very little. Just list your blade specs that you want, and what you intend to use it for, and I (along with others here) can give you plenty of recommendations.

But as for Pakistan, here is how it works. When Americans want cheap products, they outsource production to China for cheap labor. When China wants cheap labor, they outsource production to Pakistan (and some parts of Africa). They are currently "developing" and industrializing Pakistan and parts of Africa the same way we developed and industrialized China.
 
I guess it all depends on what you mean by "safe." Will they explode? Are they radioactive? No.

Are they, generally, low quality knives that are more likely to break and injure you than a higher-quality knife? Yes.

If you are tempted to go whack on stuff with one, you should probably wear goggles. But I suppose that's true with any knife...
 
I have one from back in the day and I have chopped with it a lot. It hasn't been dangerous in any way. It is really soft and it will dent pretty bad if it hits a rock or even a knot. If you are going to try to chop with it, go out and bang it on some wood or something expecting it to break. Be careful about it. If it breaks you expected it, if it doesn't it's probably reasonably safe. I guess I'm paranoid but the first few times I chop with any knife I expect that it very well could break. Just be careful until you get confidence in it.
 
It might break, might not. Depends on what scrap metal ended up in your particular knife.

Not really worth the risk considering far superior knives are available.
 
res1cue said:
But as for Pakistan, here is how it works. When Americans want cheap products, they outsource production to China for cheap labor. When China wants cheap labor, they outsource production to Pakistan (and some parts of Africa). They are currently "developing" and industrializing Pakistan and parts of Africa the same way we developed and industrialized China.
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That's not how it works at all. Pakistan has been producing cheap crappy products in various nefarious metals since around the time Mao started his "1000 mile march". Stuff only started being outsourced to China once "Made in Japan" became a mark of quality. While China has been producing cheap products for communist countries and south east asia for years, it was only really the opening of China after Tianemen Square when Western countries started outsourcing there. The biggest irony is that all the money they made from us, they lent back to us as cheap credit. This virtually free credit precipitated our current economic crisis to the extent that China then bailed us all out (at not so cheap credit rates). Communism doesn't work? How come the one country that was closest to the communist ideal is now "The Global Economic Superpower"? Don't end up like us Brits, still dreaming of the empire we had 200 years ago, stuck in some technological back water due to over inflated egos and a lack of imagination, and all the sins of our great-grandparents being visited upon us.
 
Mitchell Knives said:
It might break, might not. Depends on what scrap metal ended up in your particular knife.

Not really worth the risk considering far superior knives are available.
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Great point. There is no real quality control and batches of "steel" can include toxic materials (lead as an example). There is hardly any reliability as far as hardness is concerned. Also, as far as any food prep, I would say don't trust it.
 
I had a Pakistani Bowie back when I was a kid (Jr High/High School). I can't remember where I found it, gun show probably, it was cool looking probably a 9in blade, although relatively thin compared to most fixed blades I have now, it also had about a 4in easily visible vertical crack in the blade, which never broke, but I never really used it for any "hard use" besides chopping with it 2-3 times in soft pine for 3-4 minutes max, didn't want to break my "cool bowie" that I paid $10 for. Even as a kid that didn't know about knives, I didn't trust it.
 
parbajtor said:
That's not how it works at all. Pakistan has been producing cheap crappy products in various nefarious metals since around the time Mao started his "1000 mile march". Stuff only started being outsourced to China once "Made in Japan" became a mark of quality. While China has been producing cheap products for communist countries and south east asia for years, it was only really the opening of China after Tianemen Square when Western countries started outsourcing there. The biggest irony is that all the money they made from us, they lent back to us as cheap credit. This virtually free credit precipitated our current economic crisis to the extent that China then bailed us all out (at not so cheap credit rates). Communism doesn't work? How come the one country that was closest to the communist ideal is now "The Global Economic Superpower"? Don't end up like us Brits, still dreaming of the empire we had 200 years ago, stuck in some technological back water due to over inflated egos and a lack of imagination, and all the sins of our great-grandparents being visited upon us.
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You obviously know more than me about some of the history of Pakistani production, so I won't dispute any of it. I do know from my GF (currently pursuing a degree in Chinese legal studies) that China has been outsourcing to Pakistan as a source of cheap labor.

As to some of the other comments, I will be replying on your visitor board so as to not derail this thread
 
I have what I assume is a Paki bowie I purchased from Rock Blades I think it is called in England. Made by William. Whoever that is. The ONLY reason I bought it is cause it was big and I wanted a decent display piece. Kind of looks like a New Orleans bowie, with a coffin handle in bone. It is damascus and truth be told after looking it over after I received it, it is extremely well put together. The sheath sucks big time but the knife itself and how everything is fitted along with the blade grind is about as good as I've seen on any knife. .250" thick at the ricasso or slightly more, with a distal taper to the point. Grinds and plunge grind on both sides are perfect. It is pretty heavy but then again it is pretty darn big. Would I ever use it? Nope, it just seems that with a blade this big the steel needs to thicker at the spine, more like 3/8" of an inch at the very least. But it is very well put together.

I had Gene Hobart whose Jay Hendrickson's brother in law tell me years ago as I watched him forge a knife is the way to tell the skill of the maker is look at the plunge grinds, an even taper to the point with said grinds and how the guard is mounted. This thing is actually spot on in all those respects. So there ya go. keepem sharp
 
In the knife world the rule of thumb I use is: If it's too good to be true, it isn't.

What I mean is that those Pakistani Damascus knives that are way, way cheaper than any other Damascus knife (or in many cases a plain ol' Ka-Bar) are going to be unsafe crap 99% of the time. There is nothing inherent to Pakistani Damascus or all-inclusive of Pakistani makers that would mean their knives are unsafe, there is merely a large market for cheap Damascus style steel.

Expect realistic differences in price between good Pakistani steel and other, well-known Damascus; you may pay $100-300 less for a Pakistani Bowie of similar quality to an American, European, or Japanese (sorry if I left anyone out), but don't expect to pay $30 on the bay for a Damascus blade that's better than a Winchester brand knife.

I recently saw a new seller from Pakistan offering Damascus bowies for $95.00 and I must admit I am very curious as to the quality. The pictures and price point especially.
 
Just a FYI...

A while back I was contacted by a Pakistani "knife maker" (AKA petty criminal) on Facebook.

Long story short, he offered to sell me "the highest quality" damascus knives (that he suggested I sell as my own) for $2 each.

Legitimate damascus is generally around $15 an inch, so it's does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that "the highest quality" damascus is likely a random mixture of melted down refrigerators and man hole covers.
 
I bought the Timber Rattler Western Outlaw Bowie Knife recently. Did an acid etch on it. Came out nice. Soft steel, as I am happy to have, as it's a beater knife. Friend asked me to order one. Done. Oh, by the way, it's a full tang knife. Do I like it? Yes.
 
I had to replace a handle on a typical pakistan damascus knife. The tang was actually a rusty piece of junk steel brazed onto about an inch long hidden tang of the damascus. The joint covered by the brass guard. The fit/finish and grind were actually pretty good....Still a knife waiting to break, only held together by a small brazed area and some peened pins....If there was epoxy under the original wood, it wasnt sticking to the rust!
 
My Dad just brought home a Frost Cutlery Paki made Bowie he got for 5 bucks. I was thinking about just using it for a beater brush knife. Maybe I need to just just leave in the drawer.
 
I have one knife made by timber rattler that ive batonned through hard wood with no issues. The edge retention is terrible though. Ivw broken cold steel knives with less batonning force
 
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