Are quick sharpeners safe to use on high quality steels? do they even work?

M

Mtty22

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Mar 1, 2013
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I have a couple knives that have high quality steels like S90V, and CTS-XHP. If I ever needed to touch up the knife and get it at a decent sharpness would
using something like a Benchmade Redi-Edge or any other kind of quick sliding sharpeners be harmful to the blades? Should I stick with the Sharpmaker and never attempt to use those types of sharpeners? Thanks
 
are you talking sbout the motorized set ups? (like this these: https://www.google.ca/search?q=chef...nxoATG34LIBg&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ&biw=1278&bih=674
If so, in my experience they get blades decently sharp but i would never use one on a higher end knife. The main reason being that they take WAY to much material out. Maybe I was doing it wrong but after a just a few touchups on the fine wheel it was very noticable how much steel was gone.
 
Those pull through carbide sharpeners are useful only for resetting a really really mangled edge. If you own a sharpmaker and even remotely understand how to use it, you'll probably never get a blade dull enough to need a pull through type sharpener.
 
I have never used any quick sharpeners on higher-end knives. But I do own a few and have used them occasionally. I use them on the lower end stuff and I don't feel too bad about it. Sometimes I even touch up an Opinel on them, I'll be honest.

I stopped using them for a long time because over on the other forum, I asked about them once and the universal response was, in so many words "you darn fool." So that scared me out of them. Although I still don't use them heavily, I readily admit I do use them occasionally on my cheaper beater knives and it works fine. I have a few in various boxes and bags too, would use them out and about if I had to. Others may feel differently, I'd be interested to hear from any forumites who don't universally condemn them, myself.

Honestly I'd only really use them in some sort of dire, must have touch up situation where nothing else is there, because my usual practice are DMT diamond stones. Which are wonderful.
 
Most advise against the v style sharpeners. It's surprising that Benchmade sells them. I will admit that I tried one on a few of my beater knives and they did get sharper and showed no edge deformation when looking through a 10x loupe.
 
Oh and +1 to Grease, I agree for resetting a mangled edge they came in handy for me. Only had to do that once with a knife I found at market... he's right, if you own some decent stuff and know even basic sharpening skills, you won't really need them for that unless there is some horrible freak accident.
 
If I'm not mistaken, the 'carbide' pull-through sharpeners use tungsten carbide inserts. Consider that tungsten carbide is less-hard than the vanadium carbides in the 'super steels' like S90V (vanadium carbide is about 40% harder than tungsten carbide; see link below). Even if the typical carbide sharpeners weren't also prone to tearing up edges in general, due to the way the sharpener is designed to work (by pinching delicate edges and ripping steel loose), they also likely wouldn't work well at all on the super steels anyway, and the vanadium carbides in the steel would likely chew up the tungsten carbide inserts relatively quickly.

A V-type pull through with round-rod diamond inserts could work on the high-vanadium steels; a few manufacturers have them. Having said all this, I'd still look to find something more useful than a pull-through, for high-end blades like these.

( Knoop hardness: tungsten carbide = ~1880, vanadium carbide = ~2660, as listed here -->: http://www.tedpella.com/Material-Sciences_html/Abrasive_Grit_Grading_Systems.htm#hardness )


David
 
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Obsessed with Edges said:
A V-type pull through with round-rod diamond inserts could work on the high-vanadium steels; a few manufacturers have them. Having said all this, I'd still look to find something more useful than a pull-through, for high end blades like these.


David
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The ceramic ones also work fairly well, although the fixed wide angle is not so awesome.
 
Most people who own knives on those high-end steels probably cannot vouch for how those types of sharpeners work on those sorts of steel. I can't myself, and the reason being that like others I find they remove wayyyyyy too much steel and that they don't exactly leave a great finish that is as useful as the edge potentially could be. Sometimes they also seem to be more prone to making cosmetic damage.

IMO the SharpMaker (short of the EdgePro or Wicked Edge) is the best way to avoid these sorts of sharpeners by frequently touching up a knife to keep it razor sharp rather than getting super dull. S90V is probably not a steel anyone wants to let get completely dull! Still, the SharpMaker isn't ideal for reprofiling. It took me a very long time to reprofile a knife on a SM in CPM-S30V. S90V would be a lot worse!

As S90V is a very, very high wear-resistant steel, the sharpening process itself is going to take longer and you will want to spend more time on each stone to really work the bur. From a completely blunted edge, it's going to be a pain in the rear to sharpen on good equipment, and a nightmare on not so good equipment. I'm finding through my own usage with M390 that the ceramic stones themselves practically struggle to remove metal because M390 is that wear resistant. I have to constantly feel for the bur and use a loupe to look at it because I'm not used to a steel that takes so long to form a healthy bur throughout the process! With that said, once I finish the sharpening on M390, I am shocked by how long it holds the razor finish!!!

I much prefer the Spyderco DoubleStuff double-sided stone over the Benchmade field sharpening models.
 
Grease said:
The ceramic ones also work fairly well, although the fixed wide angle is not so awesome.
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The alumina in the ceramic is also softer than vanadium carbide, by ~ 20-25%. So, even they're somewhat limited in usefulness in refining vanadium carbides specifically, though not completely useless overall. The round-rod ceramic inserts at least will avoid the 'ripping' damage done by the otherwise sharp-edged tungsten carbide inserts, which is mainly why those should be avoided on any edge.


David
 
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Stick to your sharpmaker and don't touch those pull through sharpeners. Long story short your generally destroying your blades edge using those. And that pull through sharpener your mentioned has 30degree per side which is stupidly obtuse and even if it did put a proper edge on it the thing won't be cutting very well. The sharpmaker has 15 and 20 degree per side setting, meaning your going to have to reprofile you blade after sharpening it through that pull through. Or you have to prop up one side of the sharpmaker or manipulate the knife in your hand so you can hit the bevel to properly sharpen the knife.

Just a quick tip:
If your not doing so already use a sharpie and mark up the bevel and make sure your hitting the bevel when using the sharpmaker.
 
My wife got some "Pampered Chef" knives that came with v sharpeners. The knives are not bad but the v sharpeners actually tear tiny chips out of the edges! I told her to stop using them, now I sharpen them with a Lansky.
 
Pondoro2310 said:
My wife got some "Pampered Chef" knives that came with v sharpeners. The knives are not bad but the v sharpeners actually tear tiny chips out of the edges! I told her to stop using them, now I sharpen them with a Lansky.
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Same here; the ones we had were mounted in the wooden block that held the knives. They took it out in chunks. I took it apart remove the sharpener part and put it back together. I reground the blades on my 2 x 72 belt machine.
 
I cant't speak for the plastic stuff; but the ERU is a whole different creature. It leaves a polished refined edge after use.

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Bo T said:
Fred,

What knife steels will your ERU work with?
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I had a working chef using it on his M4 kitchen knives with success and another gentleman said it worked well on his two Elmax knives. I don't own any vanadium steels it may be a good reason to buy myself something. Always looking for a reason to but another knife. The carbide inserts in this tool are C2 which has good wear resistance. They are 9.2 on the Mohs scale, boron nitride is 9.5 and diamond is a 10.
 
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I really like the idea of the variable sharpening angle. Do you have a link to more information?
 
Bo T said:
I really like the idea of the variable sharpening angle. Do you have a link to more information?
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Same here. That looks good and if they can be had inexpensively I might even be able to get a couple.
 
Bo T said:
I really like the idea of the variable sharpening angle. Do you have a link to more information?
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We are just getting this rolling after two years of putting the pieces together. We will have a video out shortly; I'm not producing enough volume to make a website feasible as yet. The ability to minutely adjust the angle through a 24 degree arc is valuable in many different scenarios. Combine this with a Sharpie and you can find existing edge angle as well as tweak the edge using small incremental micro bevels. Its much different than being restricted to a few angles chosen by the factory or no angle options at all. Its not a Tormec or meant to do the work of a KO or WE but slip it in your pocket and take it to field or steam or just around the property and its priceless.

RedLynx said:
Same here. That looks good and if they can be had inexpensively I might even be able to get a couple.
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They are not inexpensive; you can buy two Sm----s plastic things for the price of one of these; but then again its an elegant finely made in America precision tool. Long after the plastic is in a landfill the ERU will still be in service. They are being made in runs of 50 so cheap is not an option in my little shop. Watch for them as more of them get into peoples hands. Instead of getting a couple of them consider slipping one of these into your own pocket.

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