army surplus or rei?

H

hannibal lecter spyderco

Joined
Mar 29, 2001
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1,236
Well, I've been planning to get some new gear. I was wondering what you guys would recommend as far as sleeping bag tents etc.. for long term bob. Would you go with stuff from REI or military surplus. Which one is better quality and which one is bang for the buck? As far as military surplus where do you guys get your stuff from?
 
I use a mix of both. However, I'm underwhelmed by mil surplus. The stuff that compares to civ oriented gear is overpriced. The affordable stuff is either substandard or worn out. Plus, civ equipment has warranties.

For sleeping bags that the average person can afford, I've been impressed with The North Face. I have a 15degree TNF bag (mummy style) that I love. With a compression style stuff sack, it gets nice and small. I can pack it down to about 6"x10".

I can't remember the manufacturer of my tent (it's a name brand), but it's a fairly standard 2 person tent (three season). It's big enough for two people and their gear, but barely (two large people would probably leave their packs outside). It's VERY spacious for one person. It packs down very small, about 5"x12". Pay attention to the lengths of the pole sections. This will be the shortest length you can pack the tent.

My pack is a Kelty "skier's" pack. It's more of a day pack, but I can get enough stuff for a 2-3 day self sufficient trip in it. It has an internal frame, hip strap, and lots of external pockets. The ski pockets are perfect for small rifles (like an unscoped levergun carbine), walking sticks, etc.

After you buy gear, go buy new stuff sacks for sleeping bags and tents. The stuff sacks supplied are too big. It might take a few bags to determine the best way to pack, but it's worth it.

When I do buy mil surplus, I usually buy from local sources since I like to check out the gear first. Most of my hunting and camping buddies are migrating from milsurp to commercial gear as well.

Chris
 
I also use a mixture of commercial and surplus. Surplus has one big advantage: field testing. No commercial product is manufactured in the quantity that military gear is, and the design gets a thorough workout before being adopted. The biggest disadvantage of the surplus stuff (in good condition) is the weight. Now that someone (olecamp?) is making a pint size steel cup that fits over the bottom of a quart nalgene bottle, I will probably replace all my surplus canteens/canteen cups/covers with these, saving about 8 oz in weight for each. I should say that I hear much of the new issue gear is lighter and takes advantage of the years of commercial gear design.

Since you specifically mention REI, let me say this: they carry a good selection of gear, at prices anywhere from reasonable to exhorbitant. I go there because it's convenient, there are stores all over the place in the Seattle area. They also have great gear information sheets. When I buy major gear (Bags, tents, etc), I either wait for the REI anniversary sale at the end of summer, or mailorder. My favorite place for mailorder is Campmor (they have a website). REIoutlet.com also seems to have great prices on closeouts, but I haven't dealt with them personally. BTW, I have no financial interest in any of these companies :D

Yikes, sorry for the wordy response!

Patrick
 
Commercial gear is king. As a rule, commercial gear is lighter, just as durable, lighter, better designed, lighter, more effective, lighter, etc... Did I mention lighter?

The only detractor is price. Price is relative. It also becomes less of an issue shopping sales over time. (I averaged 40% savings over MSRP last year on gear purchases.) Even at full price, quality gear pays for itself over time, imo.

That said, you do not need commercial gear. Obviously we were able to make or way out of the caves of distant history without it. But it is nice to have.

I utilize a combination of commercial and surplus gear, for the record. The surplus gear typically gets side lined once I aquire suitable commercial gear replacing it.

A couple of gear links I regularly browse:
http://rei-outlet.com/
http://campmor.com/

There are soooo many, though. (I'd wager others will add their favorite links...) I recommend spending a lot of online time finding exactly what you want for the best price. It's all worth it when you consider the saving may easily run into the hundreds of dollars.

As for specific recommendations... I'll have to get back to you on that. (Lunch time.)
 
I started out with msotly surplus, cause it was cheap and durable.

It's also (mostly) a royal PITA. Aside from the weight issues mentioned, most of it doesn't seem to be as user-friendly as the civvie stuff. Lugging an ALICE pack is torture compared to some of the newer, better packs out now.

Final disadvantage (a big one to me) is that you're automatically tagged as some kinda "paranoid survalist milita SEEL-RANGER wannabe" if you've got mostly army gear. I don't like drawing that kind of attention, personally.

That said, one advantage of the army stuff is it doesn't scream HERE I AM! in day-glo colors like a lot of the modern civvie stuff is. Being a chick who sometimes takes off by herself into the boonies, I like the option of being discreet, and not broadcasting my presence to everyone on the neighboring hillsides. Hence looking for civvie stuff in ummm... "sage," "loden," or whatever else the yuppies like to call Olive Drab these days. :D

Final analysis.. go with good civvie gear (army surplus is definately better than BAD civvie gear!). If you don't, you'll likely be replacing most of the surplus stuff in a couple years anyway. The exception is the USGI canteen/cup/trioxane stove setup. That thing rocks!

-K

PS -- if you still want to go the surplus route --
cheaperthandirt.com
is a good place to start.

PPS -- also check the hunting stores around you. Often just as good stuff as the REI type places, but often better prices and better suited to discretion. IE -- more subdued colors, or even camo if that's your thing. (remember RealTree and the like mudge altogether with distance, good ol' USGI is still a very recommended camo if you go that route). Also, less expresso-and-gourmet-in-the-woods-yuppyness, which I find a Good Thing.

have fun!
 
as far as big ticket items go:
i've got a marmot screech 3 season/2 person tent. for two people summer camping, it's a bit tight, but comfy. for colder weather camping, the packs get stuck in the vestibule or sandwiched between a ground tarp and waterproof pack bag outside.
i've got a mountainsmith frostfire ii internal frame pack. it's on the small side as internal frame packs go, but i find that it's just about perfect for the lengths of trips i go on (anywhere from weekenders to 14 day backpacking trips), not to mention the fact that the bigger the pack, the bigger your load is probably going to be.
sleeping bag: i've got a wiggy's ftrss ultralight rated to +20 degrees with the overbag rated at +35. i can't say enough about jerry wigutow's product. it's superlative.. and you can't go wrong with the lifetime guarantee. wiggy's bags may not look like much when put next to a fancy looking bag from TNF or EMS, but in my experience, the performance just can't be beat.

most, if not all of my gear is commercial. apart from smaller items (wool socks, gloves, watch cap), i find that commercial gear gets the job done better..

if price is a consideration (and it always is), campmor is a great resource for quality gear. it may not have a fancy label associated with it or be the latest in fashionable backpacking, but it will get the job done. all of my purchases from rei and rei-outlet.com were great, and the customer service was top-notch.

while i don't have any financial stake in any of the companies listed above, i am a member of rei.. that end of the year dividend sure helps, i tellya.

last thing: i think some of the most important pieces of gear i bring on my trips are cheap, easy to find, and invaluable: plain old plastic garbage bags and gallon size zip-lock bags. they're the most cost effective way to waterproof everything.

happy camping,

steve
 
Keep in mind that all military equitpment is built under contract by the LOWEST BIDDER.
Some of it is alright, but for field use doing my work for the military, I tend to carry my personal gear as much as possible.
Just get the best quality gear you can afford and upgrade over time.
That the whole dos pennies from me.
recondoc
 
Good advice on getting quality gear. I remember the times in my life when I had to buy at the cheap end of the scale. The gear cost me more in aggravation/frustration over its poor performance and jury-rigging around its design shortcomings than its monetary savings was worth. It only takes a few trips where you fiddle away an hour getting your camp setup & meal going (while your better-equipped partner takes less than half that time) to realize that the real "value" of the better equipment is the time/ease it gives you at the end of the day.

Over time I realized that the most expensive money I wasted was the money I "saved" by buying the cheap stuff, then having to buy it again & again & again ... because it not only didn't work very well, it also didn't last for squat.

I concur completely with Melvin-Purvis' tagline:
"Buy quality and only cry once."
 
someone mentioned that the military bids are wonby the cheapest contractor versus quality. I always thought that are boys would get the best equipment that money could buy. I haven't used any real surplus stuff because I've always felt that they were a tad heavy... However, maybe I shouldn't be but I've always been impress on the quality of military goods they seem like the would last longer becauseofthe thick material that is used. Am I mistaken? Since I have some high end camping gear that i use once in a blue moon. this gear that I'm getting is for long term bug out in remote areas so quality counts a lot here.
 
It really depends. I still use my Army extreme cold mummy bag after 18 years, and it's not as thick as it used to be, weighs a ton, and keeps me warm! Maybe other bags will too, but this one is proven - down to -14 F one chilly night in the Colorado Mountains. The heavy canvas also works much better shedding occasional condensation drops than nylon ever will. Yes, it's very heavy, and that's a tradeoff I'm willing to make. I also prefer the old fashioned Stockard and Yale lensatic compasses for many reasons, especially for nighttime, and the fact that there's no liquid to freeze.

I love the civvie Nalgene bottles, however. They're great! I also prefer my many civvie knives...:D

It really depends on what you are looking for, and your personal preferences.

I am also a member of REI, and have one of their tents, which works very well. I don't like going into their stores, and dealing with kids half my age who act like they know more about the outdoors than I do. Or maybe I'm just a grumpy old man, that's what my wife thinks.... :eek:
 
Hello hannibal,everyone:

I also blend REI ( and other retail stores/mail order ) with military gear. Most of the military equipment I buy centers around ammo. cans for storage and heavy, thick cotton mag pouches, etc. Along the way I have picked-up great bargains at the source I shop from, like:
first aid kits for $3.77, 100% virgin wool British Mil.-issue commando sweater for $ 8.97, 5 gallon, military gas cans, MRE food pouches, mortar tubes, trioxane fuel bars and lots more.

You might want to give them a "look and see."

www.sportsmansguide.com

They have a complete magazine on new and used American military issue gear and military gear and equipment from around the world. The sportsmans Guide is not the only military equip. source, but I have found them to be very good since my first purchase 3 years ago. As in a lot of used military equipment items, they offer really cheap, "yuky" stuff. But it is sort of like a garage sale...one persons junk is anothers treasure.

:rolleyes:
 
hannibal-

I recommend to those who ask going with what I call "Aftermarket" Military Gear, i.e. Blackhask Industries or Eagle Industries.

They seem to combine the best of both worlds, with military functionality, superior quality materials, bomb-proof construction, and commercial ergonomics and warranties! Problem is they also demand "superior wallets", if you know what I mean.

For a sleeping bag, I always suggest those produced by a UK company called Snugpak. Not cheap, but uses some hi-tech wonder fiber, is durable and extremely lightweight and packable for the temperature-rating (i.e. a 20-deg. F bag weighs only 2 lbs.). I belive their "Code Green" model are issue to UK troops.

Now, I also tend to combine in some Mil-surp gear, especially on outings where weight is not a concern, i.e. car camping or short day hikes. Again, the advantage of Mil-surp gear is, of course, the grunt-proof construction--with the disadvantage of heavier weight.

Really though, you're going to have to (as others have suggested) find the your own personal desired balance between "lightweight" and "durability". Sometimes you can get both, most of the times not. For the best suggestions I've found on the Net in search of uniting these two attributes, go to:

http://www.backpacking.net

Some of the suggestions and products you'll read about there are pure genius.

Good luck,

Ron (guncollector)
 
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