Assault rifle recommendation...

B

bmilla35

Joined
Aug 29, 2007
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Hey fellas..my brother and father have been bugging me to post here for a while now and I am finally getting around to it.

My brother is a big gun nut (for being 15). For years he has been buying airsoft guns and customizing those, in addition to shooting the families shotguns and rifles. One thing we don't have, however, is an assault rifle. With the president in office, it's possible AR's could be outlawed and I think it's about time we get one before its too late.

I'm not sure of the budget...but I don't think it should be over $1500? We can talk about caliber, brand, etc. Because I know nothing about them :p

My brother, maybe jokingly, is throwing out names like eotech polygraphic sites, magpul "stuff", and other things I dont remember :D

Thanks guys. I look forward to hearing what you guys have to say
 
You cannot go wrong with a Bushmaster AR-15. Its the real deal. The only authentic caliber is .223, and thats what you want. :thumbup:

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After that, you might consider a Ruger SR-22, which is the well-regarded 10/22 in .22 caliber, pretending to be a real AR-15. The advantage is that the .22 ammo is way less expensive, and you can shoot all day for $20. It probably meets the former statutory definition of an assault rifle, because it has a pistol grip, collapsible stock, etc., but its more of a pretender than the real deal. I still dig it, though, because of the price of the ammo.

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The Soviet - Eastern block AK-47 also meets the former statutory definition of an assault rifle. Half the world, including the bad guys in Iraq, use them. They cost half as much (or less) than an AR-15, and are made less than half as well. Some folks think they are made by retarded monkeys with ball peen hammers. But they are highly reliable as well - in my view more reliable than an AR-15. But less accurate too.

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I personally went a bit higher and paid $1100 for a Smith & Wesson M&P AR-15, 5.56/.223 either/or. I also have a Arsenal AK-47 which was somewhere around $850. Out of the 2 the AR-15 is much better, WAY more accurate. Even though I think the sighting on my AK isn't up to par but nevertheless no questions asked the AR-15 will shoot insane groups.

The only disadvantage with the S&W AR-15 is pmags don't fit it without modification. Although by modification I literally mean taking a circular file and filing off part of the mag. Takes maybe 5 minutes a mag, I adjust all 3 of my pmags and now they work fantastic.
 
I'd stick with Bushmaster or Colt in .223Rem/5.56 NATO. I have a .22lr conversion bolt & mag, just drop it in for some cheap plinking fun (yeah I know it isn't very accurate).

Eotech holosights are great, I own 2 and have used mine to hit targets out to 300 yards while on the move. Only problem is that they need batteries and have a manual on-off. If you have the money, get a ACOG that doesn't need a power source.

Magpuls are for fast mag changes, bought a bunch and don't like them. They don't fit into standard ammo pouches so you'll need costly kydex if you want to carry them.

Don't know how old you are, but sounds like you may need to wait a while before you can legally purchase. I don't think you need to worry though, no way the Dems are going to try and grab guns right now, they know it's political suicide to try any more gungrabs.
 
The AR15 is a Barbie for boys. There are all kinds of ways you can dress it up and accessorrize it. If you decide on an AR, you'll probably want a flattop M4 style with a quality railed forened so you can hang all kinds of lasers and lights and other doodads on it. :cool:

As a rule of thumb, you can be pretty sure you're getting a quality product if it's one of the A, B, C brands--Armalite, Bushmaster, and Colt--but they're by no means the only quality brands out there. Daniel Defense puts out a good product (available online at AIM Surplus), and anything Bravo Company sells will be top-notch. Rock River is good, but the chrome-lined barrel isn't standard. You can also get a stripped lower receiver and a Stag Arms/CMMG parts kit and assemble your own. It's cheap and easy and you'll get it set up just the way you want it.

Assuming you're looking at an AR15 in an M4-type configuration (flattop carbine), the main things you want to make sure it has is a chrome lined barrel and chamber (not just a chrome-moly barrel), M4 feedramps, a .556 chamber (it's not quite the same as .223). Bonus points for an MPI Bolt (Magnetic Particle Inspected), which you'll get with Colt, Bravo Company, and a few others.

The Eotech is a pretty darned good red-dot sight, but I think the hi-speed operators are mostly going with aimpoints these days. :D:thumbup::thumbup:

Magpul makes stocks, trigger guards, pistol grips, magazines, and pretty much anything else made of plastic. Their stocks (I like the ACS) and magazines are the ones to get, IMO.

Your brother will probably want to get something like this (It's a Leitner-Wise (now known as LWRC) with a piston system instead of the gas impingement with an eotech, pvs-14 night vision, and a magpul stock they haven't made for years. And a bunch of Busse knives.)

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Other things you might want to consider (apart from AKs) would be somethign on a .308 platform. DSA makes as good an FAL as anyone, and PTR-91 makes a good HK-91 clone. You should be able to get either for around a thousand bucks. They're not as light and handy as an AR (unless it's a highly accessorized AR), but they have power and an effective range that an AR carbine can't touch. There are also several manufacturers making .308 rigles in the AR style. Armalite AR-10, for instance, but DPMS, Bushmaster and probably a couple others make them too.

There are also a lot of good AKs on the market that can be had for not too much money. They're typically assembled from parts kits from various former East Block countries, with enough US manufactured parts thrown in to satisfy the ATF. (Under current federal law, AKs can't be imported and there's a limit on the extent to whichnthey can be assembled using foreign parts.) If you're considering one, go to the AK side of AR15.com and look for reviews there. Red Jacket, Vector Arms, Arsenal, and a bunch of others have a reputration for putting out a quality product. Century Arms maybe not so much so.
 
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+1 on getting a gas piston AR. Read up if you're not familiar with what that is- it turned my love/hate relationship with ARs into all love/all the time : )

Also a fan of the Eotech on an AR and not putting anything else (except back-up sights) on it- maybe the magnifier if you're shooting that far and need it (I do). The Eotech gives you both very quick acquisition and precision and really suits the "assault rifle" job description. ARs were meant to be light and quick, loading them up with all kinds of junk is IMO really counterproductive.

Have fun and let us see what you end up with!
 
I disagree with about half of what has been said here about AR15's. A piston system is an expensive upgrade that caused the carrier to tilt and chew at the front of the buffer tube. The AR platform with direct gas is very reliable as is, as long as you are getting quality. (not DPMS, CMMG, or at this time Bushmaster)

You could go to AR15.com but the culture there is rude and lots of 15 year old repeating hear-say. Takes a while to sort out the smart guys, but if you have that patience there are some good guys there. M4carbine.net is a more technically accurate forum. BS is not tolerated, so it has fewer member, but a much higher % of guys who actually know what they are talking about.

you could contact Bravo Company or Adco firearms. both of those companies only sell decent stuff. The Adco guys are kinda rude and impatient but that is because they are busy and get a lot of tire kickers calling. A smaller more friendly dealer is nvbgear.com he is polite and only sells good stuff, and does have good prices. I buy from all the above, more with NVB then the others last couple years.

And, yes you should be buying this stuff right now! there was a huge rush after the election, that has slowed and there is a glut on the market, because folks are more worried about their job then their guns.
 
Thanks for all the responses guys...keep em coming!

For the record...I am 21, but my father is buying it (I plan on buying a handgun myself...actually I might have started a thread about it a while ago here lol).

I'll definitely do some more research about the direct gas/gas systems in general.
 
I'm going to echo on what people have said and go with both a AR and a AK. You can find a cheapo AK type rifle at Dicks Sporting goods for around 400+taxes and fees.

As for an AR you can build one for as little as 600 (using some used parts) or go with building a decent one for around 900.

Skip the piston on an AR, you can add it later if you want but it doesn't offer enough (yes I own an Osprey piston) to justify the expense. Work on building a decent AR and then learning how to properly maintain it before even considering a piston. I'm not going to get into the entire why a piston is good/bad or what it does or doesn't do because if you start on a piston you need to be slapped. Part of having an AR is knowing how to fix it if something breaks, how to clean it, when to clean it, and so on and so forth...With a piston people tend to get lax and not clean and maintain as often as they should. When you start on a piston you don't understand the cleaning/maintance needed...but going with a DI (normal AR) as a starter you get that paranoia as I call it instilled in you, thus making a happy little gopher who cleans and maintains his AR the way it should be even after they switch over to a piston.

Also on the AKs aren't accurate...for the first shot they are :p

Building an AR15 isn't that difficult, it does require an IQ larger then your shoe size, and a bit of research but in the long run you can build a gun that fits your tastes and needs right off the bat.

Lets face it, your going to get an AR and then a new rail, and then a new grip, and then a new foregrip...etc...etc. Why spend the money twice? Take your time and read up on what sucks and what doesn't find out what companies make good stuff and who to avoid, then look at what your needs are and what you like and build one.

Be warned though, anything said on arfcom isn't to be believed 98% of the time. AR15.com is full of highspeed mall ninja's that I wouldn't trust with a dull butter knife.



*As a note you don't need to have all the big bells and whistles on a AR, I used an (get ready for it) A1 stock for almost a year before my needs changed and I had to upgrade to something else. Keep that in mind if you build, if a part is going to be replaced down the road you can go with an alternative (IE magpul moe handguard) that won't break the bank and is meant to be replaced with something bigger and better down the road.
 
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www.benelliusa.com has their MR1 which has the gas system of the M4 developed from their ARGO system.

I got my first 223 recently - a bolt action ! But that's a step above the single shots I have .You don't waste ammo that way .
 
I'd say your brother should grow up first, and then think about rifles.

The world is not a video game, eh?
 
I have a feeling that they won't be federally legislated for a while, so don't let that rush your decision.

Also, the Eotech stuff is rather expensive. You might need to get a cheaper rifle to stay under the price limit if you want one.

What about ammo? That's another expense to keep in mind.

Also, is an "assault rifle" right for you brother, right now? At his age, unless there are other arrangements, chances are that sort of money would be much better spent put towards a car.
 
It really depends on price point and what you want.

For quality and good value for money, look at:
Colt LE6920
Daniel Defense M4's
KAC SR-15E3's

The Ruger gas piston is way too heavy out front so, I would skip that option.
 
if your worried about them being banned before you have a chance to save up and buy them..get just the recievers as they are legally the firearm..everything hanging off them is irrelevant as per the law, that way you can build them as money permits, an ar lower reciever is $100 now, an FAL lower around $400 and $500ish for a good m1a, on the same budget you could pickup an AK lower too..that would pretty much cover all of the popular assault rifles, its not as much fun initially but building these things is, and you have more pride in it afterwards, theres also compoanys and people everywhere that will build them for you if your not up to it
 
MVF said:
+1 on getting a gas piston AR. Read up if you're not familiar with what that is- it turned my love/hate relationship with ARs into all love/all the time : )

Also a fan of the Eotech on an AR and not putting anything else (except back-up sights) on it- maybe the magnifier if you're shooting that far and need it (I do). The Eotech gives you both very quick acquisition and precision and really suits the "assault rifle" job description. ARs were meant to be light and quick, loading them up with all kinds of junk is IMO really counterproductive.

Have fun and let us see what you end up with!
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DO NOT LISTEN TO THIS MAN!!!!
You want your AR properly decked out.
Like this:

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IMO it all depends on how much money you have to spend , or want to spend.
I stick with the AK because it is within my price range , parts are cheap and easy to come by and they ( AK's ) take whatever you throw at them and come back for more.
If you want a rifle that doesnt cry when it gets dirty after a long day of shootin' out in the boonies , go for an AK. The Bulgarian variants are recommended. There is HOURS upon hours of reading online regarding these great rifles , some of which is opinion and speculation , some of which is fact and often it is hard to discern between the two. There are some very well made AK's to be bought.
The biggest advantage in my opinion is you get the real man stopper 7.62 round over the puny little .223 :D No offense to our .223 brothers meant :) If you talk to my Gyrene buddy Dave he will tell you about AR's and .223 all damn day long while giving me the finger for razzin him while he's doing so. :D

Goodluck in your search , take your time and do some research , buy what you like , not what someone else wants you to buy.

Tostig




Powernoodle -
The Soviet - Eastern block AK-47 also meets the former statutory definition of an assault rifle. Half the world, including the bad guys in Iraq, use them. They cost half as much (or less) than an AR-15, and are made less than half as well. Some folks think they are made by retarded monkeys with ball peen hammers. But they are highly reliable as well - in my view more reliable than an AR-15. But less accurate too.
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:thumbup:

IMO
 
First...I don't see any Federal legislation on Assault type weapons, they don't want a fight with the NRA. I've owned two AR-15's,the first was a pre-ban Colt class III that I sold for a mint. I now have a Spikes Tactical in semi-auto and I am very satisfied with it. What ever you buy, take it to the range when you can. Learn the weapon and practice marksmanship.
 
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