Axe Sharpening and Grit

David Martin

David Martin

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I'm wondering, to what grit do you experts sharpen your axe to? With splitting or limbing, is there a difference in performance? Thanks, DM
 
I like my axes sharp enough to shave; in clean wood the edge will last a long time. A fine file followed by a coarse DMT diafold to take the burr off. Some old-timers preferred a double-bit with one side sharp and the other left less sharp for chopping out roots and other grotty stuff.
 
The less friction on the edge the better it will cut, so in theory a edge sharpened to 6000 grit will cut better than a 400 grit. I think. :rolleyes:
 
aikonen said:
The less friction on the edge the better it will cut, so in theory a edge sharpened to 6000 grit will cut better than a 400 grit. I think. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Not really. Friction can actually help the axe dig into some woods better, or essentially create a tiny fulcrum for pulling the axe out of the wood (although this tends to be the chisel rather than the edge itself). See this post:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1308296-Grinds-for-Hardwood-and-Softwood

Keep in mind that it is not just the edge doing the work, the chisel angle or bevel behind the edge has to move the material to allow for cutting at the edge surface.

An axe, or knife, will cut nearly as well no matter the grit (perhaps there is a microscopic difference), but the burr can leave a less smooth appearance. The other problem is durability. The more burr that is left on the axe the more likely that the burr is pulled off in a rough way, creating small chips in the edge.

As well, the process of honing and then stropping will reharden the edge. This takes a lot of stropping, and some will say it's bunk, but the top knife sharpeners and axe sharpeners take the time to do it.

File/coarse stone, medium, fine, hone, and strop is the full process. Generally, the grits are 200-400, 800-1000, and 2000. Stropping after 2000 should be enough for most people. You can get an insanely sharp axe, or knife, with this and it will last a good 20-30 hours if the steel is good. Touchups may only need to be the strop or hone and strop. Rarely do you need to go down to coarse or medium grit, only if the edge starts catching in certain spots.

You could go a little higher in grit if you wanted, probably most useful in convexing the edge for frozen wood. Up to 10,000 grit or so but it's a lot of work. There is also research suggesting that the stropping compound may only be half the grit that is advertised and may actually damage your edge (likely due to the inconsistent surface and pressure on a strop and the pulling motion).

You may be able to find more information regarding racing axes, but all of my research suggests they use pretty much the same process as Mors Kochanski with knives. His booklet on knife sharpening is excellent, and there are good youtube videos as well. Dudley Cook also suggests a similar process.

As far as limbs and the base of the tree go, it is basically the same. The less burr and rolls in the edge the less likely you will damage your axe further. Limbing is a matter of angle at the edge. In softwoods you need a steeper angle because the pitch can make the limbs as hard as glass. Hemlock and spruce are about the worst. Red pine can also be bad as you will get limbs with no pitch and then a limb that looks like maple candy.
 
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True Grit
for me
oh well i thought that was pretty funny.
i sharpen the edge til it gets sharp, simple. if there are any file marks sand paper scratches or other ugly looking marks i sand them off or away til i'm statisfied.
an axe is a cutting tool. its gonna get rough treatment in these Oak/Hickory forests here in Midzoory so she needs to be sharp but don't look for her to shine for long. bangin' her face into hardwood will mean a touch up now and then to keep her shinin'
buzz
 
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Ok, thanks. So, the convex edge and the grind behind the edge play a big role as well. Helping the axe to split and make the cut. I took it to 500 grit American. Now, I may consider going higher. I have a 2000 grit Spyderco ceramic stone. I appreciate your expertise in this area. DM
 
markv said:
True Grit
for me
oh well i thought that was pretty funny.
i sharpen the edge til it gets sharp, simple. if there are any file marks sand paper scratches or other ugly looking marks i sand them off or away til i'm statisfied.
an axe is a cutting tool. its gonna get rough treatment in these Oak/Hickory forests here in Midzoory so she needs to be sharp but don't look for her to shine for long. bangin' her face into hardwood will mean a touch up now and then to keep her shinin'
buzz
Click to expand...

Yeah, I've come to like the rough look with bits of wood and resin actually. Probably doesn't perform the best but I just sharpen it when it needs it, wipe it down with steel wool sometimes, and oil it. Some woods leave a nice colour on the steel too.
 
Chignecto Woodsman said:
As well, the process of honing and then stropping will reharden the edge. This takes a lot of stropping, and some will say it's bunk, but the top knife sharpeners and axe sharpeners take the time to do it.
Click to expand...

No. No it won't. :o

With respect, do you have any support for this curious claim?
 
Mors Kochanski (stropping) and top timbersports sharpeners (a lot of polishing with a high grit stone). It is old knowledge. Do you have any support that it does not work?

Some will debate whether or not the heat generated can actually harden the axe, but even if it is just removing the burr it is in fact hardening the edge. The burr is, in effect, a softer steel due to its fragility. A lot of the science will say it has no effect, but given that timbersports competitors/sharpeners still swear by it there has to be something to it.
 
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It's false attribution. What you are seeing/experiencing is not the result of hardening at the edge. Just because they do one thing and get a particular result does not mean that it is due to the reasons they state. Heat would not harden steel, and it is not work hardening from displacement of the crystal structure. There is not a mechanism at work in that method that is able to induce an increase in hardness. The closest thing there is would be if any burr or wire edge is present it will work harden and break off due to being folded back and forth a bunch of times, but that isn't going to produce an increase in performance vs simply sharpening to a fine apex without developing a wire edge in the first place.
 
aikonen said:
The less friction on the edge the better it will cut, so in theory a edge sharpened to 6000 grit will cut better than a 400 grit. I think. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

This is true. I will typically sharpen to 4000 grit or higher and usually buff after that. There are several advantages to doing this. A polished edge will penetrate very slightly deeper. Also it releases easier. But the main advantage is that the more highly polished edge will retain its sharpness longer having fewer micro-scratches for oxidation to begin upon.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
It's false attribution. What you are seeing/experiencing is not the result of hardening at the edge. Just because they do one thing and get a particular result does not mean that it is due to the reasons they state. Heat would not harden steel, and it is not work hardening from displacement of the crystal structure. There is not a mechanism at work in that method that is able to induce an increase in hardness. The closest thing there is would be if any burr or wire edge is present it will work harden and break off due to being folded back and forth a bunch of times, but that isn't going to produce an increase in performance vs simply sharpening to a fine apex without developing a wire edge in the first place.
Click to expand...

This sounds right to me.
 
Thank you gents for contributing your experiences.
I applied the above advice and sharpened my 'True Temper--Kelley Perfect' double bit axe up to a true hard Arkansas. On one edge giving it a 42-44* angle and about a 30* angle on the other edge. The second edge worked great for limbing and the 44* edge worked great for splitting. I cut dried dead oak (mostly from drought & bark beetles) and when splitting a few days ago using an edge taken to Norton's fine India I noticed I had to work harder than today's edge. It was enough difference that I noticed right away. So, thanks. DM
 
I'll strop it on the green chromium oxide before I use it again and see how this affects it's cutting abilities. Thank you Rem. DM
 
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FortyTwoBlades said:
It's false attribution. What you are seeing/experiencing is not the result of hardening at the edge. Just because they do one thing and get a particular result does not mean that it is due to the reasons they state. Heat would not harden steel, and it is not work hardening from displacement of the crystal structure. There is not a mechanism at work in that method that is able to induce an increase in hardness. The closest thing there is would be if any burr or wire edge is present it will work harden and break off due to being folded back and forth a bunch of times, but that isn't going to produce an increase in performance vs simply sharpening to a fine apex without developing a wire edge in the first place.
Click to expand...

An excellent statement. I lean toward this methodology in most sharpening tasks where precision is key. Not that anyones methods or techniques are incorrect. If it works for you thats a good thing whatever it is. I just tend to follow what was presented above.
 
I also almost always go to black Arkansas. I sometimes stop with the white hard Arkansas. I never have gone past the black. True-the less friction on the edge the better it will cut. I see no way that hand honing and stropping can reharden the edge. If that is old knowledge this old axeman has never heard of it.
 
Square, ok thanks and pj & Old as well. I took it to that level because that was my larger Arkansas stone. My black is a 2X4" and could be challenging on an axe. I'll see. DM
 
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