Axe vs. Saw vs. Big Knife for Chopping

averageiowaguy

averageiowaguy

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Mar 22, 2011
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The question of axe vs. saw vs. big knife for chopping has come up in my world recently. I was asked what I prefer for wood processing/camp tasks. My answer is it depends on the situation/environment.

A couple of points that have been raised in the discussion (outside the forum) thus far:

My friend says that the use of a knife as a chopper (at least in the US) for processing wood is a relatively recent development. He says he thinks that the reason people are using a big knife to chop wood is because they would really like to carry a sword and instead are carrying a big knife and looking for a justification for it's presence.

As a caveat, I pointed out that while he may have a valid point, many of the knifes from olden times (think Lewis and Clark expedition) were stick tang knives constructed that way because steel was expensive. The tool has evolved and steel prices have dropped to the level that making a full tang knife is economically feasible. The technique of using a big knife for chopping may have evolved with the tool.

I've also pointed out that it takes considerable practice to master the use of an axe to the point that you aren't going to damage the tool or injure yourself/others. I would rather see a novice with an axe using a bow saw or, if he/she simply MUST chop, a big knife than an axe.

I'd be interested to hear the opinions of forum members.
 
It had never occurred to me to use a knife for chopping larger pieces of wood until I saw people doing it on 'bushcraft/survival' forums. Growing up, I probably would have had said knife taken away from me if my mentors saw me using it in this way, as this would have qualified as 1) abuse of the knife, and 2) a clear indication that I had no business with a knife in my hand. I understand that there are large knives specifically built for such purposes these days, but I still remain unconvinced that this is a smart use of a knife, and I have no doubts that an axe is a much, much better tool for the job - if only from a simple physics standpoint. I'm talking about large knives here - not machetes, bolos, etc.

Still, you raise some good points about safety with axes. If you don't know what you're doing, or even if you do know what you're doing, and you are tired, distracted, etc. the results can quickly be disastrous. The other issue with axes is weight, if you're going to be hiking/backpacking longer distances. Still, if you're going to chop wood, an axe is the superior tool hands-down, in my opinion.

A bow saw is worth 10 times its weight in gold. You can process larger pieces of wood into smaller pieces very efficiently, and safely. You don't hear of too many people accidentally sawing off their hand. They are lightweight and easy to pack. I like saws.

That aside, the amount of focus on wood cutting/processing tools in the bushcraft world just seems way out of proportion with my usual woods experience. I spend a fair bit of time outdoors, year-round, but I truthfully don't spend that much time at all "processing wood." I don't go out every weekend looking for things to chop and cut down. Nor do I spend a lot of time chopping down wood to practice building shelters, etc. (though I have no doubts that I could do so in the highly remote situation that I ever needed to...). And frankly, it pisses me off when I see those sorts of impacts all over the place on public land. I own a good axe, a good hatchet, a good bow saw, and some good knives, and I know how to use them. Beyond that, I really don't spend a lot of time obsessing about it, or trying to invent new ways to use them without real need. This isn't a judgement of others, just stating my perspective.
 
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For "chopping" type tasks, (falling a tree, making firewood rounds, etc.) saw is where its at. It is usually the lightest, safest, and most efficient because it uses serrations to cut small pieces of wood away, instead of brute force to chop large chunks away.
 
Cross grain chopping on dead wood isn't fun, but entirely possible, (with varying degrees of ease and success), with an axe or large knife. However, as you previously indicated, a certain level of skill is required for the safe and efficient use of an axe, whereas a "large" knife is less likely to end up in the toes or foreleg of a green user. Its often a weight cosideration for me when chosing tools. My leuku and Silky Zubat weigh less than my axe, so depending on the type of forests and time of year, I ll try and leave some steel at home.
 
Smithhammer raises a good point: unless I am going out for 3+ nights, off trail with minimal gear, a small pukko style blade, and maybe a saw, are plenty. Even when temps are in the teens, I never really spend too much time "processing" firewood. I spend more time making a bed and a nice firepit that will allow me to use less wood.
 
When I worked at a canoe camp in northern Minnesota a few eons ago, we packed a bow saw instead of an ax. Made a lot of sense, as the saw was safer and much more efficient, not to mention lighter than an ax.
 
As a land owner I am afforded the ability to cut down large dead standing trees for fire wood. Most people don't have a use for a large axe and can use a large knife to process fire wood when camping or out playing around. Many people aren't allowed to cut any wood near them and this is why most outdoor stores are filled with clothing as you can legally walk anywhere in some fancy over priced north face jacket.

Smithhammer said:
It had never occurred to me to use a knife for chopping larger pieces of wood until I saw people doing it on 'bushcraft/survival' forums. Growing up, I probably would have had said knife taken away from me if my mentors saw me using it in this way, as this would have qualified as 1) abuse of the knife, and 2) a clear indication that I had no business with a knife in my hand. I understand that there are large knives specifically built for such purposes these days, but I still remain unconvinced that this is a smart use of a knife, and I have no doubts that an axe is a much, much better tool for the job - if only from a simple physics standpoint. I'm talking about large knives here - not machetes, bolos, etc.

Still, you raise some good points about safety with axes. If you don't know what you're doing, or even if you do know what you're doing, and you are tired, distracted, etc. the results can quickly be disastrous. The other issue with axes is weight, if you're going to be hiking/backpacking longer distances. Still, if you're going to chop wood, an axe is the superior tool hands-down, in my opinion.

A bow saw is worth 10 times its weight in gold. You can process larger pieces of wood into smaller pieces very efficiently, and safely. You don't hear of too many people accidentally sawing off their hand. They are lightweight and easy to pack. I like saws.

That aside, the amount of focus on wood cutting/processing tools in the bushcraft world just seems way out of proportion with my usual woods experience. I spend a fair bit of time outdoors, year-round, but I truthfully don't spend that much time at all "processing wood." I don't go out every weekend looking for things to chop and cut down. Nor do I spend a lot of time chopping down wood to practice building shelters, etc. (though I have no doubts that I could do so in the highly remote situation that I ever needed to...). And frankly, it pisses me off when I see those sorts of impacts all over the place on public land. I own a good axe, a good hatchet, a good bow saw, and some good knives, and I know how to use them. Beyond that, I really don't spend a lot of time obsessing about it, or trying to invent new ways to use them without real need. This isn't a judgement of others, just stating my perspective.
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I use a heavy machete for what your talking about. I find that frankly I like felling small trees and chopping with my machete better than using an ax or saw. I definitely dont just use it to justify having it though, its just my preference over other tools.
 
What comes to mind for myself through personal experience, is that I don't always have a choice in which tool to use. I have actually rolled the edge of an old Becker Brute on a live frozen tree. If moving from extreme cold -40 up to above zero C. I would go bow saw...to...axe...to big knife. Of course there is reasonable overlap but I have dealt with trees that were frozen hard as flint. To be honest if I was ever in that environment again, long term, I would just pack a chain saw as the native do. Axes were just a back up or used to check ice thickness.
 
SubaruSTi said:
Most people don't have a use for a large axe and can use a large knife to process fire wood when camping or out playing around. QUOTE]

Which is the true reality of were I now live. A local regional park is my fun place now and an axe is almost redundant, and just used for some splitting.
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modern metallurgy has made large knives a practical alternative to hatchets

For sheer practicality, it's hard to beat a good folding or bow saw for cutting wood to a useful or at least portable size.
Axes are great - if you have big enough wood processing chores that a chopper or saw is not practical.
In my hands, a well made chopper with comfortable handle is as efficient as a hatchet for most camp chores and has a wider range of uses.
(and yes, I've seen guys who have spent a LOT of time learning how to use an axe do some pretty amazing things with their personal and well-tuned tool - but they're specialists and my reply is geared towards generalists)

knife like objects have been used for centuries to process wood -- by specialists and rural residents, not the mass market. (Kukhri, Enep, Japanese bamboo knife/froe, European shingle froe, 1917 bolo knife or V44 for example)

When I was 20 I used a machete for tree maintenance instead of an axe because it was easier to use, didn't get tangled in underbrush (because it removed it), and cost less.

Personally, I think the trend towards big choppers is an off-shoot of the romaniticization of the Bowie knife in movies (Crocodile dundee, Commando, Predator, Rambo, etc...) rather than the desire for a sword. Folks wanted a big bowie because it looked cool and much like the old adage about hammers (if all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail) if all you have is a Bowie, you're going to want to chop stuff. I see choppers as a blending of heavy Bowie profiles and longer, thinner, lighter machetes.

Do I like axes? Sure! when weight or packing size is not an issue -- or when I have a job that actually needs an axe rather than a hatchet or machete.
Do I like choppers? Sure! I'm a cave troll at heart and bashing things is fun.
 
What exactly about the metallurgy itself makes using a large knife more practical?
 
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Clever observation regarding the large blade as a substitute/symbol for a sword. I started with a large knife as chopping tool as well, and no doubt there is a certain satisfaction in chopping wood with a blade. As long as I did that for its own sake and the sake of enjoyment, it was great. When I started to build a couple of shelters and similar things I quickly learned how much more effective a proper axe is. Then, I bought a large folding saw and that was a revelation to me. So much more efficient, energy saving and less dangerous. Of course, each tool has its own tasks it does best (although it's hard for me to see what a big knife does better than either an axe or a saw). So for shelter building, wood preparation for small fires etc., I have learned to love my saw.
 
IF you learn to use a big PROPERLY made chopping knife (blade at least 10" x 2" x 5/16+ or LARGER), It is a VERY effective chopping tool. Im much quicker with a big knife cutting small sapplings etc. then with an axe or saw.

Even an average user can get through up to 2-3" small trees/sapplings with 1 or 2 wacks with a Chopper.
 
I don't have much use for chopping motions in the woods TBH. A saw takes care of the cross cuts much more efficiently than an axe or knife. The axe or knife only factors into it for splitting rounds. Any wood processing I do in the woods is about making firewood. Building improvised shelters is not something I do often.

These are my preferred ways of preparing and processing firewood.
1) Forestry harvester + tractor driven wood processor
2) chainsaw + axe
3) saw + axe
 
Saws are best for cutting live trees. I would use the axe for limbing once the tree is down if I didn't have a chain saw. Axes pretty much suck cutting dead wood. Saw works much better. But not for splitting.

With live trees (and you aren't going to be using these for firewood unless that is all you have) axe is best if you don't have a saw. A large chopping knife is okay for small trees (<3"). But if I know I'm going to be cutting good sized trees, I'll have an axe or saw with me. Bow saws work just fine once the tree is on the ground for wood processing to useable lengths.

Large chopping knives have their place for their overall utility and are not best in my opinion for any task, but will work for most. Some claim they can field dress game and skin it with an axe. Not my cup of tea. Knife works better. For many it is a situation of carrying one tool and it that case, I would go with the knife. But if I owned such, I'd have a saw with me and skip the really large blade.

I think large knives are best compared to hatchets, not axes.
 
orangehero said:
What exactly about the metallurgy itself makes using a large knife more practical?
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not so much using the large knife, but making a large knife that can survive the stresses imposed by chopping/batoning without breaking.
stick tangs snap, poorly heat treated alloys snap. low alloy steels aren't as resistant to edge rolling or wear.
heat treat ovens and/or high precision temperature control makes for very precise and repeatable heat treats
engineered quenchants make for better/more consistent heat treats
understanding of what is happening to the structure of a steel at a given temperature lets the maker plan out the heat treat to eke out all the performance they want/need.
etc...
better alloy and better heat treat mean you can use thinner steel without sacrificing strength as well.
 
Smithhammer said:
It had never occurred to me to use a knife for chopping larger pieces of wood until I saw people doing it on 'bushcraft/survival' forums. Growing up, I probably would have had said knife taken away from me if my mentors saw me using it in this way, as this would have qualified as 1) abuse of the knife, and 2) a clear indication that I had no business with a knife in my hand. I understand that there are large knives specifically built for such purposes these days, but I still remain unconvinced that this is a smart use of a knife, and I have no doubts that an axe is a much, much better tool for the job - if only from a simple physics standpoint. I'm talking about large knives here - not machetes, bolos, etc.

Still, you raise some good points about safety with axes. If you don't know what you're doing, or even if you do know what you're doing, and you are tired, distracted, etc. the results can quickly be disastrous. The other issue with axes is weight, if you're going to be hiking/backpacking longer distances. Still, if you're going to chop wood, an axe is the superior tool hands-down, in my opinion.

A bow saw is worth 10 times its weight in gold. You can process larger pieces of wood into smaller pieces very efficiently, and safely. You don't hear of too many people accidentally sawing off their hand. They are lightweight and easy to pack. I like saws.

That aside, the amount of focus on wood cutting/processing tools in the bushcraft world just seems way out of proportion with my usual woods experience. I spend a fair bit of time outdoors, year-round, but I truthfully don't spend that much time at all "processing wood." I don't go out every weekend looking for things to chop and cut down. Nor do I spend a lot of time chopping down wood to practice building shelters, etc. (though I have no doubts that I could do so in the highly remote situation that I ever needed to...). And frankly, it pisses me off when I see those sorts of impacts all over the place on public land. I own a good axe, a good hatchet, a good bow saw, and some good knives, and I know how to use them. Beyond that, I really don't spend a lot of time obsessing about it, or trying to invent new ways to use them without real need. This isn't a judgement of others, just stating my perspective.
Click to expand...

I would like to say ''I like big knives'' that's just me. I think that this post is the best I have ever read, especially the last paragraph.:thumbup::thumbup:
 
There was a chopping contest recently where a guy took a 2x4 in half in 6 seconds with a chopper knife... Say what you want about knife chopping, no one can deny it works and works well if you're good at it.
 
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