Axe wedge question

jeremy1517 · Mar 27, 2015

I got a new axe head made.

The eye is roughly 1 3/4" deep.

How long should the kerf and wedge be cut?

Square_peg · Mar 27, 2015

I'd cut the kerf about 1-1/4" deep and use a wedge 1-1/2" long.

300Six · Mar 28, 2015

Some folks swear by softwood (poplar, basswood etc) wedges and others prefer hardwood. Your call.

Belgrath04 · Mar 30, 2015

Square_peg said:
I'd cut the kerf about 1-1/4" deep and use a wedge 1-1/2" long.

With the longer wedge he is going to probably bottom it out at the base of the kerf right?
If it bottoms out how do you know the wedge is exerting enough force to lock down the head?
Is there a rule of thumb for wedge width versus kerf width?

G-pig · Mar 30, 2015

Belgrath04 said:
With the longer wedge he is going to probably bottom it out at the base of the kerf right?
If it bottoms out how do you know the wedge is exerting enough force to lock down the head?
Is there a rule of thumb for wedge width versus kerf width?

The wedge usually won't go the full depth. There is almost always extra to saw off once the wedge is tight.

ICS · Mar 31, 2015

Jeremy, cut the kerf about 1 1/2" deep and bring the handle through the eye by about 1/4" so that when you drive a 1 1/4" wedge home, it will spread the timber out the front of the eye and you will have no trouble with the head coming off and if it does come a bit loose, you still have a bit of room to bang the wedge in. I really don't get the idea of having the handle and wedge flush on the face of the eye. It can only be done for looks and is more trouble than its worth.

ICS · Mar 31, 2015

Belgrath, the only rule of thumb I know is not to make the angles too steep on the wedge, it limits the depth you can drive it. Soft wedges also compress more than hard wedges and you also don't want your wedge to be any longer than the kerf, that is only inviting trouble if you happen to bottom it out.

300Six · Mar 31, 2015

ICS said:
..... and you also don't want your wedge to be any longer than the kerf, that is only inviting trouble if you happen to bottom it out.

To the contrary. Mark the length of the kerf cut on to the too-long wedge. Then you'll know precisely where it is in relation to the depth of the kerf as you're pounding it in.

Skiv · Mar 31, 2015

300Six said:
To the contrary. Mark the length of the kerf cut on to the too-long wedge. Then you'll know precisely where it is in relation to the depth of the kerf as you're pounding it in.

Bingo. I usually make wedges out of maple, because I have a lot of it around from a tree I salvaged a few years ago. Not a lot of other hardwoods around here unless I happen across someone doing some serious pruning in a fruit or nut orchard. I have some pearwood that I've also used for wedges.

I tend to leave them longer because I'm going to pound the hell out it to seat it, then trim off the mushrooming. I'll usually use it for a while before the final trimming, to make sure I put enough man on it the first time.

cityofthesouth · Mar 31, 2015

It does seem to be something of an art, but at the same time, probably not as complicated as it is made out to be. On the one hand if the wedge bottoms out but isn't thick enough to produce a good wedging effect, that's not good. I have also personally driven a wedge through the handle, which kinda made my blood pressure rise. On the other hand you are pretty much relying on experience to tell you just how steep the wedge needs to be to get the job done. Wood compresses, each piece is different, etc etc. I think the "right" answer is going to be one of those zen master, Goldilocks sort of things - it needs to be just so. How do you get it that way? Well, that's harder to say.

Additionally, I think there is value in making the wedge too long. I think the best way to drive the wedge is the same way you hang the head - drawing the head up by hitting the bottom of the handle while it's suspended. In the "With a knife and axe" video that guy makes his wedge like 10 inches long and he drives it by suspending the axe, holding onto the wedge (the extra length acts as a handle) and striking it. This draws the axe up the wedge, so to speak. IMO, something similar is the best way to do it.

Personally, I'm not sure it makes much difference how much length of wedge is in the kerf. Sure, it matters, but I'm just saying, if your wedge has been driven to the point where it absolutely will not drive any further, yet you still have some gap in there at the bottom, chances are that axe will stay hung. In a perfect scenario you'd have the kerf full and the wedge would be an exact match to the angles in the eye, exerting pressure in every direction, over every fraction of an inch of surface. If you can accomplish that, nice work, but you'll probably be OK if you don't.

ICS · Mar 31, 2015

Has anyone tried aluminium wedges. I have been using them for a number of years now and there is really no guesswork with them. You do have to find a supplier though. As for pounding the hell out of a wedge, this is totally unnecessary and why it is better to leave a bit out of the front of the eye. It shouldn't be hard work but I suppose it is something that everyone has their one take on. What works for one might not be what works best for others, no right, no wrong until something goes wrong. Wedge on my friends.

ICS · Mar 31, 2015

Hey 300Six, pull the wedge out of the last axe that you hung and let me know if it is longer or shorter than the depth of your kerf.

300Six · Mar 31, 2015

ICS said:
Hey 300Six, pull the wedge out of the last axe that you hung and let me know if it is longer or shorter than the depth of your kerf.

Haven't broken a haft in quite some time but I know for a fact the wedges were always longer. Pencil mark on them told me that too. Plus they had to be sawed off after. My aim is to leave no voids and that's why the wedges are same thickness as the kerf when they begin.

quinton · Mar 31, 2015

cityofthesouth said:
It does seem to be something of an art, but at the same time, probably not as complicated as it is made out to be. On the one hand if the wedge bottoms out but isn't thick enough to produce a good wedging effect, that's not good. I have also personally driven a wedge through the handle, which kinda made my blood pressure rise. On the other hand you are pretty much relying on experience to tell you just how steep the wedge needs to be to get the job done. Wood compresses, each piece is different, etc etc. I think the "right" answer is going to be one of those zen master, Goldilocks sort of things - it needs to be just so. How do you get it that way? Well, that's harder to say.

Additionally, I think there is value in making the wedge too long. I think the best way to drive the wedge is the same way you hang the head - drawing the head up by hitting the bottom of the handle while it's suspended. In the "With a knife and axe" video that guy makes his wedge like 10 inches long and he drives it by suspending the axe, holding onto the wedge (the extra length acts as a handle) and striking it. This draws the axe up the wedge, so to speak. IMO, something similar is the best way to do it.

Personally, I'm not sure it makes much difference how much length of wedge is in the kerf. Sure, it matters, but I'm just saying, if your wedge has been driven to the point where it absolutely will not drive any further, yet you still have some gap in there at the bottom, chances are that axe will stay hung. In a perfect scenario you'd have the kerf full and the wedge would be an exact match to the angles in the eye, exerting pressure in every direction, over every fraction of an inch of surface. If you can accomplish that, nice work, but you'll probably be OK if you don't.

Bingo!

I like the kerf full, or as close to full as I can. With experience you can tell when the wedge job is right..

garry3 · Mar 31, 2015

cityofthesouth said:
It does seem to be something of an art, but at the same time, probably not as complicated as it is made out to be. On the one hand if the wedge bottoms out but isn't thick enough to produce a good wedging effect, that's not good. I have also personally driven a wedge through the handle, which kinda made my blood pressure rise. On the other hand you are pretty much relying on experience to tell you just how steep the wedge needs to be to get the job done. Wood compresses, each piece is different, etc etc. I think the "right" answer is going to be one of those zen master, Goldilocks sort of things - it needs to be just so. How do you get it that way? Well, that's harder to say.

Additionally, I think there is value in making the wedge too long. I think the best way to drive the wedge is the same way you hang the head - drawing the head up by hitting the bottom of the handle while it's suspended. In the "With a knife and axe" video that guy makes his wedge like 10 inches long and he drives it by suspending the axe, holding onto the wedge (the extra length acts as a handle) and striking it. This draws the axe up the wedge, so to speak. IMO, something similar is the best way to do it.

Personally, I'm not sure it makes much difference how much length of wedge is in the kerf. Sure, it matters, but I'm just saying, if your wedge has been driven to the point where it absolutely will not drive any further, yet you still have some gap in there at the bottom, chances are that axe will stay hung. In a perfect scenario you'd have the kerf full and the wedge would be an exact match to the angles in the eye, exerting pressure in every direction, over every fraction of an inch of surface. If you can accomplish that, nice work, but you'll probably be OK if you don't.

I think I have tried most things. Ring porous, diffuse porous, hard wood, medium hard wood. I have had success with all of it.

When you go to change a handle out the fact that your wedge is softer that the handle can be advantageous, makes drilling it out a bit easier. But it all seems to work.
I drive my wedges very hard. I have heard it can break an eye, never had a problem with it. My wedges usually split in two or three pieces which I think aides in filling in all voids. Maybe I just rely on brute force and ignorance.

I have recently came across some vintage Woodslashers on original hafts that are still tight. They seemed to use a glue and a wooden wedge with a steel wedge drove right down the center of the wooden wedge. I can't say it did not work but not sure what worked the glue or the wedging they used. These are on unstamped Kelly's with the ribbed eyes. They have just two ribs per side in the eye, one had part of a paper label and the other one was stamped B and then some numbers which I believe is the letter on all the boys axes stamped with the small letters and numbers.

cityofthesouth · Apr 1, 2015

garry3 said:
I think I have tried most things. Ring porous, diffuse porous, hard wood, medium hard wood. I have had success with all of it.

When you go to change a handle out the fact that your wedge is softer that the handle can be advantageous, makes drilling it out a bit easier. But it all seems to work.
I drive my wedges very hard. I have heard it can break an eye, never had a problem with it. My wedges usually split in two or three pieces which I think aides in filling in all voids. Maybe I just rely on brute force and ignorance.

I have recently came across some vintage Woodslashers on original hafts that are still tight. They seemed to use a glue and a wooden wedge with a steel wedge drove right down the center of the wooden wedge. I can't say it did not work but not sure what worked the glue or the wedging they used. These are on unstamped Kelly's with the ribbed eyes. They have just two ribs per side in the eye, one had part of a paper label and the other one was stamped B and then some numbers which I believe is the letter on all the boys axes stamped with the small letters and numbers.

Yeah, this is why I think it's probably not as complicated as it is sometimes made out to be. At the end of the Pioneer Axe video which documents the Emerson Stevens shop in the mid 60s, you see their handle guy simply jam a wedge in and beat the piss out of it, with the handle in a vise and butted against something on the floor. The wedge breaks into several pieces. I pretty much always break my wedges too - I often find that the front of the eye takes more wedging that the rear of the eye. I have always considered the two videos I've cited as rare examples of people who knew all there was to really know about an axe. Both do it a little differently, but I'm betting they both had great success.

BG_Farmer · Apr 1, 2015

ICS said:
Has anyone tried aluminium wedges. I have been using them for a number of years now and there is really no guesswork with them. You do have to find a supplier though. As for pounding the hell out of a wedge, this is totally unnecessary and why it is better to leave a bit out of the front of the eye. It shouldn't be hard work but I suppose it is something that everyone has their one take on. What works for one might not be what works best for others, no right, no wrong until something goes wrong. Wedge on my friends.

Only wedge that ever came out within a few hours of work was the aluminum wedge in my sons council HB! I guess if you are only using an axe for a few minutes at a time, they are a good solution, but my outdated wooden wedge job with wedge driven in hard and filling kerf top to bottom, front to back has already outlasted it several times over.

ICS · Apr 1, 2015

Never had any trouble with them coming out at all, must have held his mouth wrong when he put it in. They are certainly easier to get out, no fiddling around at all, and can be used again and again.

garry3 · Apr 1, 2015

cityofthesouth said:
Yeah, this is why I think it's probably not as complicated as it is sometimes made out to be. At the end of the Pioneer Axe video which documents the Emerson Stevens shop in the mid 60s, you see their handle guy simply jam a wedge in and beat the piss out of it, with the handle in a vise and butted against something on the floor. The wedge breaks into several pieces. I pretty much always break my wedges too - I often find that the front of the eye takes more wedging that the rear of the eye. I have always considered the two videos I've cited as rare examples of people who knew all there was to really know about an axe. Both do it a little differently, but I'm betting they both had great success.

First time I had seen "with a knife an axe". I really thought the guy was going to end up bleeding a few times when he was carving the axe handle. Some interesting work was done on that video. I couldn't help but notice at 11min the guys auger bit had an opposite twist than what I am accustomed to.