Backpacking/Bushcrafting Bedroll?

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PayetteRucker

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Aug 4, 2009
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Has anyone tried to make or purchase a traditional oilskin canvas style bedroll as an alternative to a bivvy/sleeping bag? If so, where did you get the materials/bedroll itself? What's the weight difference? What did it wind up costing you in the end?
 
This reminds me very much of a recent thread here with a guy wanting a canvas tarp, only worse.

Weight wise I think if you went for the a complete retro ensemble and stuffed one with woolly blankets the difference could be in the order of a pair of sledgehammers compared to modern gear.

There are loads of cheapo ones around that are lighter than many others because they have scrimped in the quality of the fabric. A dig about for “swags” will get you a shedload of hits for those. I can tell you that the adult size Duluth offering isn't far shy of 10lbs without insulation.

I know where I'd get the fabric here but at colossal weights like that I doubt you want to have it shipped. I suspect you could easily punch up something appropriate on Amazon for starters.

When you factor in that it still wont be as waterproof as a Gore-Tex bag, and will still have all the mildew issues of tents from yesteryear, even if you carry it on a horse it isn't really a great contender outside of a fancy dress function. Less than pedestrian performance at a weight penalty surely no pedestrian would want to put up with for long.
 
Like BT says, you will take a weight hit going with canvas. I'd suggest rolling your blanket in one of the casualty blankets or thicker emergency blankets. Makes a great ground cloth or emergency shelter to go with your blanket and weights only about 1 lb. Alternatively, you can go with a piece of tyvek that will be a bit lighter and also serve duty as tarp or groundcloth. Not as traditional, but more effective.
 
I used a poplin, surplus, sleeping bag bivy cover, applied a oil finish, and used 2poncho liners as insulation. It worked, but the gortex version has less condensation, weighs less, but has more noise. I still use the poplin, if I know that I will be under a tarp next to a fire as the gortex version burns easier.
 
What about going with waxed cotton instead of canvas. IIRC that's what nessmuk used as his tarp.
 
Hey Ben, I don't know much if any about traditional Bedrolls but I have made my own and slept in them when I was in scouts. Some designs worked and some didn't. All you need are 2 wool blankets and a poly tarp. You can find info about the setup in the BSA Handbook. In my book (1990) it's on page 31. They call it a Blanket sleeping bag. Here is a Youtube User showing how it's done: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGLuFK965Z4.

To complete your setup all you would have to do is wrap that in a tarp. I've done it so I know first hand that it works. Keep in mind that it's not near as small or light as a $200 down sleeping bag. They are great on a tight budget and are probably smaller then my SlumberJack Ultimate 20 sleeping bag. I just don't know how low a temp the woll sleeping bag can handle.

Temps are in the upper 30's to low 40's here at night now so I probably be using a wool bed roll till next summer. But next summer I plan to try them out again if I don't get my self a down sleeping bag. Let us know what you figure out. BTW I've looked at the comercial setups and they are $130+ for just the canvas covers. A Poly tarp and 2 wool blankets will really keep costs down. Or if you want the traditional look, make your own Canvas cover. The Canvas will provide more insulation then the Polu tarp will.
 
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Just for illustration let's poke up that Duluth roll at 10lbs without insulation and compare it to a simple and not especially fancy set up using a bit of surplus:

I'm looking at this modular system that also weighs 10lbs. This system has both water resistance and insulation for its 10lbs. It declares that it is good to -30. I'm a sceptical sort so let's have 10 off that and call it -20. How much weight of blanket do we suppose might need to be added on top of the Duluth's 10lbs to get equivalent performance?

Next lets consider the often cited melt hazard thing. Solution, chuck something like this over the top.

Both the Duluth and the surplus + fireblanket combo are about $200. Can anyone think of any criterion that the combo won't blow the Duluth completely into the weeds at? I'd be interested to hear replies 'cos I can't think of any, and it only took a very modest set up to achieve that.
 
Obviously the Duluth bedroll and other kits like that were designed for canoe and packhorse trips. A good oilskin canvas is just as waterproof as any goretex product and probably more breathable. Condensation sucks. Obviously man accomplished some form of practical sleeping system without the use of synthetics for almost a hundred thousand years, so there's something out there that works. That's why I asked. I doubt the heroes of Telemark spent 4 months in high tundra in WWII era synthetics-and they packed all of that on their backs. There's a solution out there-this isn't a stupid question, BaldTaco.
 
Home Depot, has the canvas paint cloth. It is lighter than regular canvas & can easily be waterproofed. that is what I used for F&I period events along with my Hudson bay blanket.
 
Just picked up two hudson bay/civil war style wool blankets in dark blue with broad red stripe. They sure would look pretty sweet with a grey canvas roll! This is all going on a natural color swedish surplus canvas rucksack so that might work well. I'll have to dig up a 5 gallon bucket somewhere to do the dying... will keep you posted. Think I'll make at least one of these, probably two.
 
PayetteRucker said:
Just picked up two hudson bay/civil war style wool blankets in dark blue with broad red stripe. They sure would look pretty sweet with a grey canvas roll! This is all going on a natural color swedish surplus canvas rucksack so that might work well. I'll have to dig up a 5 gallon bucket somewhere to do the dying... will keep you posted. Think I'll make at least one of these, probably two.
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Got any pics of the blankets?
 
baldtaco-II said:
Just for illustration let's poke up that Duluth roll at 10lbs without insulation and compare it to a simple and not especially fancy set up using a bit of surplus:

I'm looking at this modular system that also weighs 10lbs. This system has both water resistance and insulation for its 10lbs. It declares that it is good to -30. I'm a sceptical sort so let's have 10 off that and call it -20. How much weight of blanket do we suppose might need to be added on top of the Duluth's 10lbs to get equivalent performance?

Next lets consider the often cited melt hazard thing. Solution, chuck something like this over the top.

Both the Duluth and the surplus + fireblanket combo are about $200. Can anyone think of any criterion that the combo won't blow the Duluth completely into the weeds at? I'd be interested to hear replies 'cos I can't think of any, and it only took a very modest set up to achieve that.
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I don't think weight is an issue for PayetteRucker.

PR
I don't own the books but I think the Telemark commandos spent their time travelling huge distances with very little rest. At other times they livid in small hunter cabins.
 
baldtaco-II said:
Just for illustration let's poke up that Duluth roll at 10lbs without insulation and compare it to a simple and not especially fancy set up using a bit of surplus:

I'm looking at this modular system that also weighs 10lbs. This system has both water resistance and insulation for its 10lbs. It declares that it is good to -30. I'm a sceptical sort so let's have 10 off that and call it -20. How much weight of blanket do we suppose might need to be added on top of the Duluth's 10lbs to get equivalent performance?

Next lets consider the often cited melt hazard thing. Solution, chuck something like this over the top.

Both the Duluth and the surplus + fireblanket combo are about $200. Can anyone think of any criterion that the combo won't blow the Duluth completely into the weeds at? I'd be interested to hear replies 'cos I can't think of any, and it only took a very modest set up to achieve that.
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The only thing I can think of is long term durability. If you're the sort who only wants to buy a piece of gear once it's hard to beat Duluth gear and heavy wool blankets.
 
Traditional is fine if you don't care about their excess weight and bulk (read that, "not backpacking").

The good thing about natural materials is they don't (seem to) get pinhole burns from sparks. I wouldn't dare park myself next to a campfire in my goretex bivy bag. You certainly could, though, with a homemade Whelen style tent/bedroll, if you went with cotton and wool.

Good luck with this, and post some picts.
 
They spent the first five days sleeping out of canvas half shelters transferring a quarter of a ton of radio equipment from the Hadanger plateau to their staging spot, which yes, was a cabin. Yet spending a week out in high tundra followed by another four months in a cabin that wasn't heated, they must have had some kind of practical non-synthetic sleeping solution. The blankets were ordered from vtarmynavy.com and are on the way. I'll tell you how they are when I get them. This whole idea was started by a young friend who commented on the RAT3 I was EDCing and asked if I knew what bushcraft was. He wants to spend alot of time in the woods this fall and winter and wants to build an 'old school' kit, starting with a canvas and leather rucksack-hence the 'probably making two' deal. I have a brand new -20 degree Kelty bag for myself this season, so this isn't about me packing weight. I'll shoot you pictures as soon as I can, pretty excited.
 
PayetteRucker said:
Obviously the Duluth bedroll and other kits like that were designed for canoe and packhorse trips. A good oilskin canvas is just as waterproof as any goretex product and probably more breathable. Condensation sucks. Obviously man accomplished some form of practical sleeping system without the use of synthetics for almost a hundred thousand years, so there's something out there that works. That's why I asked. I doubt the heroes of Telemark spent 4 months in high tundra in WWII era synthetics-and they packed all of that on their backs. There's a solution out there-this isn't a stupid question, BaldTaco.
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Amigo, I never supposed your question was stupid although I do believe the answers to questions can be examined in a less than optimal fashion.Obviously, the prime consideration is the hackneyed “just use what you like like” thing. I'm pretty sure I recounted a tale on this forum of a guy that came out with us in a full length leather Trench Coat that turned from black to a blue sodden sponge after a few days. I don't care. I don't care if he picked that 'cos he thought it was the best tool for the job, whether that is all he had, whether he had a joy-boy fetish for leather, or any other motivation. I read some of the neo-bushcraft a prime goal is to eschew anything made from steel. My point here is that there are two ways of thinking about this stuff A] what is best at performing... , and B] arbitrary divisions based just on whim and personal preferences based on something more ethereal. Whilst I can't reasonably knock anyone for motivations arising under “B”, I do like to call a spade a spade, so when it comes to part “A” there are correct answers, there are wrong answers. Part “A” is the path to making an informed decision. Part “B” doesn't require any reference to anything outside oneself. The very fact that you asked about relative weights caused me to suppose at least to some degree you were interested in performance. If I thought you were going to use one no matter how poorly it performed in hydrostatic head measurement or how many stones it weighed and just wanted a template to sew one up I would have answered differently, if at all. As you did mention a performance characteristic, weight, I thought this would be an ideal spot for those of us that are interested to run through some of the facts about such gear, especially in relation to other gear. I might be mistaken but I get the impression that you may have become a bit peeved me doing that, thinking that I was calling your question stupid. If I am correct in that, that is a faulty conclusion to reach. I find fault in your reasoning elsewhere in you post too:I would like to see you figures comparing the water resistance and vapour permeability of “good oilskin canvas” compared to Gore-Tex. Whilst I will concede that natural materials have been made incredibly water resistant that came at a cost to the ability of vapour to pass through it. Here I am thinking of the use of linseed oil on canvas that we know to be at the genesis of Linoleum. I'm going to speculate that oilskin canvas that has a vapour permeability anything like on par with Gore-Tex [Sympatex, eVent, *,] will be a hell of a lot less waterproof. Your data could prove me wrong but 'till it does...As for your comments on “the heroes of Telemark...” if find that just plain weak. One often finds similar lines of argument when one comes across discussions of the strengths and weaknesses of knife steels – someone soon chucks in a totally irrelevant “back in that day they made knives from bronze so none of this really matters”. Back in the day someone dragged the toilet cart through the streets of Bombay towed behind a Penny Farthing, so what ‽ Some things such as the Welrod persisted long after WWII Denmark but it would be weak to conclude that just because that makes for a case that it would also be desirable bring forward the ski bindings of that period, or their radio sets, their knives, their ration packs, their torches, or their tents. It may be that what was great once is now just a pathetic lump compared to anything else. Just saying it was used / or good then so there must be merit to it now is hollow and uninformative.
 
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Yorkshire Boy said:
I don't think weight is an issue for PayetteRucker. PRI don't own the books but I think the Telemark commandos spent their time travelling huge distances with very little rest. At other times they livid in small hunter cabins.
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I suspected that could be the case but even than I am given to think it is a loser. When I was formulating the question I asked I was wondering “what if” it was strapped to my bike. It didn't make any difference to the outcome it just knocked out the glaringly obvious weight one. Even with the bike I was at an irreconcilable impasse due to other factors. It wasn't a trick question I had the answer to, even with bike I couldn't see how the Duluth could beat the combo I cited. Somebody may have been able to point to an error I had made. I was looking forward to a learning chance there.
 
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