Balisongs in Tennessee?

[meshmdz]

does anyone know if balisongs fall into the vaguely written law that TN has? i was wondering because i was thinking about getting one of the BM42's and wanted to make sure it was legal, to carry. i know the blade length must be under 4 inches so i may go with the new BM32. can someone help me out here? thanks!

 

[shootist16]

They are fine.

 

[faceplant]

while we are on the subject of Tennesse laws may I beg a question,

Tennesse knife law says basically its legal as long as its under four inches and you are not acting in a violent manner with it

because Im a martial artist and carry two knives on me usually and if I go to jail Ill probably locked up longer than most because Im a said martial artist.

 

[hurrakane212]

On the balisong, they should be fine. But certian cops will tell you differently.
(14) "Switchblade knife" means any knife that has a blade which opens automatically by:
(A) Hand pressure applied to a button or other device in the handle; or
(B) Operation of gravity or inertia;

[Acts 1989, ch. 591, § 1; 1990, ch. 1029, § 1; 2001, ch. 375, §§ 1, 2.]

Just remember that according to a 1986 Tennesse court case they cannot classify a balisong as a "switchblade." So you should be ok. That caselaw exempts it from the "Operation of gravity or inertia" stipulation.

As far as being a martial artist and getting into more trouble, well that depends. It depends on what art you study, and what you did in the situation. If you can show that you attempted to utilize your training to avoid escalating the situation and then turned to the knife as a "last ditch effort" to keep yourself alive then you will not be held to any worse standard. Also, you can claim that your art is a "hobby" or (especially with arts like TKD or judo) is sport oriented and therefore not anymore offensive than football.
Either way, if you use situational awareness and aviodance and can illustrate that you did your best to avoid conflit than you should be fine.~Nathan (15 year martial artist and pre-law student)

 

[TNRat]

On the balisong, they should be fine. But certian cops will tell you differently.
(14) "Switchblade knife" means any knife that has a blade which opens automatically by:
(A) Hand pressure applied to a button or other device in the handle; or
(B) Operation of gravity or inertia;

[Acts 1989, ch. 591, § 1; 1990, ch. 1029, § 1; 2001, ch. 375, §§ 1, 2.]

Just remember that according to a 1986 Tennesse court case they cannot classify a balisong as a "switchblade." So you should be ok. That caselaw exempts it from the "Operation of gravity or inertia" stipulation.

As far as being a martial artist and getting into more trouble, well that depends. It depends on what art you study, and what you did in the situation. If you can show that you attempted to utilize your training to avoid escalating the situation and then turned to the knife as a "last ditch effort" to keep yourself alive then you will not be held to any worse standard. Also, you can claim that your art is a "hobby" or (especially with arts like TKD or judo) is sport oriented and therefore not anymore offensive than football.
Either way, if you use situational awareness and aviodance and can illustrate that you did your best to avoid conflit than you should be fine.~Nathan (15 year martial artist and pre-law student)

Nathan,

Thanks for that wonderfully informative post. That was great.:thumbup:

 

[AmadeusM]

Speaking of Tennessee, can ASPs be carried here, concealed?

 

[meshmdz]

no they cannot, they are considred "clubs"


the balisongs open with inertia and gravity dont they, so according and based on that arent they illegal??? just trying to play devils advocate.

 

[TNRat]

I have been told that when one is certified by an ASP instructor one can carry an ASP under your concealed carry permit, but have no law to back that up.

Perhaps Nathan would be kind enough to step in again.

 

[Cutshaw]

the balisongs open with inertia and gravity dont they, so according and based on that arent they illegal??? just trying to play devils advocate.

Did you read Nathan's post?

Just remember that according to a 1986 Tennesse court case they cannot classify a balisong as a "switchblade." So you should be ok. That caselaw exempts it from the "Operation of gravity or inertia" stipulation.

I've gotta agree...

Nathan,
Thanks for that wonderfully informative post. That was great.

I used to be a resident of Tennessee: Both Knoxville and Johnson City. I believe Nathan is correct. Do bear in mind that most policemen would consider a balisong a "martial" blade and hence be loosely construed as "going armed." The appearance of something being amiss, even though technically not illegal, can still lead to further problems.

Being questioned at 3:00am, on the side of a rural county road, absent street lights or houses for miles, by a constable [takes a deep breath] about the possession of a balisong and your intent in carrying, can still make for an uncomfortable situation. [1989, road thru Wears Valley, Sevier County, TN]

 

[Gollnick]

When I lived in Nashville -- Actually Antioch, TN -- I sought from the Sherif of Nashville and Metro Davidson Country a special license for the collection of balisong knives. I did receive that document, but they had no form for it, so it was just a letter. I asked them to serial number it #1 since they had no knowledge of any such license ever being issued, but they declined since they had not researched it entirely.

That is how I became THE (singular) Balisong Collector since I was the only one licensed in Tennessee.

 

[TNRat]

The appearance of something being amiss, even though technically not illegal, can still lead to further problems.

"You can beat the charge, but you can't beat the ride."

That is the old saying, and the ride has gotten to be very expensive today.

 

[hso]

The Handgun Carry Permit does not extend to any other weapons in TN. That includes batons.

OTOH, if you are certified in baton (or Asp, in particular) you may carry one. Be advised you should keep the certification card on you at all times. I have a Tn Carry Permit and an Asp certificate and am going to get a more general baton certification.

 

[hurrakane212]

HSO is correct, there is a baton permit. It is seperate from the CHL and I believe about 60$. ~Nathan

 

[Mtnvalley]

HSO is correct, there is a baton permit. It is seperate from the CHL and I believe about 60$. ~Nathan

Just for clarification- there isn't a baton "permit" per se available from the state, and there is no fixed price for it.

The requirement is that you have taken a class in safe and proper use of the baton, from an instructor certified by TN. You must carry proof of that training (issued by the instructor) with you anytime you are carrying a baton. For that matter, I believe that those so "trained" can become instructors themselves with minimal additional training.

The class I took was $30 (cheaper than most), lasted an afternoon, and much of the class time was spent watching Kelly McCann's excellent baton techniques video. Two weeks prior, I had 16 hours of impact weapons training at TDI including much more hands-on work with the baton--you know, actually building some skill in its use-- but that didn't count for TN purposes.

It's also worth noting that not all LEO's are familiar with this law, and may assume that civvy baton carry is illegal until proven otherwise. The card given by my instructor cites the specific statutes (TCA 39-17-1308 and particularly 1309 are the ones you're interested in) in case there's a "problem".

But again- there's no actual license or permit given by the state of TN specifically for baton carry. Proof of completing a "competency-based training program" is pre-accepted as a valid defense to charges of carrying a concealed baton, as I understand the code (and I'm not a lawyer).

Edited to add: I dunno if an ASP class already taken would qualify or not; I think the key is whether the class was taught by a TN-certified instructor (with a state-issued instructor license number), was at least 4 hours in length, and covered safety issues (red zones).

 

[TNRat]

The above is an excellent post with supporting info clearly stated.

Thanks for the great reply.

A buddy of mine went through the ASP certification the PD instructor offers to anyone legal to carry. I think he also charges $15 or $30 for the class.

Thanks.

 

[reconseed]

what is the advantage of carrying an ASP over a legal length blade, or a handgun?

 

[Cutshaw]

Uh... let's see... maybe?

Non-lethal?!?

Self defense or not. Right or wrong. Non-lethal means a MUCH shorter judicial visit.

 

[Mtnvalley]

Happy to help a bit, Terry. I lurk here occasionally, and learn quite a bit...it's nice to have something to offer back once in a while.

Actually, I was a bit dyslexic in the above post; I meant that 39-17-1308:9 was of particular interest. Here's the statute (not directly linkable as best I can tell):

39-17-1308. Defenses to unlawful possession or carrying of a weapon.
(a) It is a defense to the application of § 39-17-1307 if the possession or carrying was:

(1) Of an unloaded rifle, shotgun or handgun not concealed on or about the person and the ammunition for the weapon was not in the immediate vicinity of the person or weapon;

(2) By a person authorized to possess or carry a firearm pursuant to § 39-17-1315 or § 39-17-1351;

(3) At the person's:
(A) Place of residence;
(B) Place of business; or
(C) Premises;

(4) Incident to lawful hunting, trapping, fishing, camping, sport shooting or other lawful activity;

(5) By a person possessing a rifle or shotgun while engaged in the lawful protection of livestock from predatory animals;

(6) By a Tennessee valley authority officer who holds a valid commission from the commissioner of safety pursuant to this part while such officer is in the performance of the officer's official duties;

(7) By a state, county or municipal judge or any federal judge or any federal or county magistrate;

(8) By a person possessing a club/baton who holds a valid state security officer/guard registration card as a private security officer/guard, issued by the commissioner, and who also has certification that such officer has had training in the use of club/baton which is valid and issued by a person certified to give training in the use of clubs/batons;

(9) By any person possessing a club/baton who holds a certificate that the person has had training in the use of a club/baton for self-defense which is valid and issued by a certified person authorized to give training in the use of clubs/batons, and is not prohibited from purchasing a firearm under any local, state or federal laws; or

who holds a valid commission card from the appropriate out-of-state law enforcement agency and a photo identification; provided, that if no such valid commission card and photo identification are retained, then it shall be unlawful for such officer to carry firearms in this state and the provisions of this section shall not apply. The defense provided by this subpart shall only be applicable if the state where the out-of-state officer is employed has entered into a reciprocity agreement with this state that allows a full-time, commissioned law enforcement officer in Tennessee to lawfully carry or possess a weapon in such other state.

(b) The defenses described in this section are not available to persons described in § 39-17-1307(b)(1).
-------------------

As for the person asking about the advantage of a baton--having another less-lethal option is indeed a plus, and a baton can be used to create and/or maintain distance...and can be used for blocking an attack move a lot easier than I suspect a knife could. Additionally, even though a baton, properly-used, is considered non-lethal...it can go lethal (or at least deliver a debilitating fight-stopper) in a NY minute if conditions truly warrant.

I know very little of knife-fighting (taking a 2-day in it at TDI next month, tho), so don't wish to talk out my butt about its capabilities. Personally, I have little interest in getting in a knife:knife fight (or any fight if avoidable, for that matter), but plan to carry my little TDI Ka-Bar.

A final word on batons: I just read in today's paper that Snoop Dogg was busted on a felony count in CA for having a collapsible baton in his checked luggage. This served as a nice reminder to check the laws wherever I'll be traveling to or through, as state reciprocity with TN on firearm carry may or may not extend to batons depending on the location.

 

[cwdotson]

Can anybody give me the name of the case in 1986 that one respondent referenced, where a balsiong CAN NOT be considered a "switchblade"? Thanks.