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Balisongs opening speed compared to other knives
- Thread starter Donna Barnas
- Start date
Nothing beats a fixed blade, except a knife in your hand.
As for the speed of the balisong... Back in the early eighties while on deployment in the Med, I would carry my balisong around. Switchblades are plentiful in Italy, and we bought them by the bucketload. I would race guys, either from pocket or in the hand, and I would usually win.
Now that may be because I grew up around balis, but I still have a few autos lying around and I still think I'm just as fast with either.
An interesting sidenote... I would use my bali for just about any cutting chore back then, and nobody said a word. Nowadays, when carrying my bali I also carry a small pocket knife in case I have to cut something in public. Is that sad or what? What's even sadder is that when I carry an auto, I don't bother carrying a second pocketknife.
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-ramius
"oderint dum metuant"
As for the speed of the balisong... Back in the early eighties while on deployment in the Med, I would carry my balisong around. Switchblades are plentiful in Italy, and we bought them by the bucketload. I would race guys, either from pocket or in the hand, and I would usually win.
Now that may be because I grew up around balis, but I still have a few autos lying around and I still think I'm just as fast with either.
An interesting sidenote... I would use my bali for just about any cutting chore back then, and nobody said a word. Nowadays, when carrying my bali I also carry a small pocket knife in case I have to cut something in public. Is that sad or what? What's even sadder is that when I carry an auto, I don't bother carrying a second pocketknife.
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-ramius
"oderint dum metuant"
Gollnick
Musical Director
- Joined
- Mar 22, 1999
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- 29,258
Well, Clay's gonna demonstrate in, I think, July. He thinks he can beat an auto.
Me? I can open my non-auto AFCK much faster than a balisong any day.
Twenty or thirty years ago, before the advent of the "tactical one-handers" with their silky smooth pivots and purpose-built features (thumb studs, holes, etc.), when a one-hand opening of a folder consisted of jerking open a buck by the spine, the balisong probably seemed fast. But, today, I think they're obsolete in the speed department.
However, if anyone can do it, Clay can.
I gotta get busy and build them a timer system.
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Chuck
Balisongs -- because it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!
http://www.balisongcollector.com
Me? I can open my non-auto AFCK much faster than a balisong any day.
Twenty or thirty years ago, before the advent of the "tactical one-handers" with their silky smooth pivots and purpose-built features (thumb studs, holes, etc.), when a one-hand opening of a folder consisted of jerking open a buck by the spine, the balisong probably seemed fast. But, today, I think they're obsolete in the speed department.
However, if anyone can do it, Clay can.
I gotta get busy and build them a timer system.
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Chuck
Balisongs -- because it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!
http://www.balisongcollector.com
K Williams
Gold Member
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- Nov 17, 1998
- Messages
- 3,284
The fastest balisong opening that I can do is the latch opening into the reverse grip with the edge in. I can open my Endura II folder just as fast as the balisong, and with the folder I end up in a saber grip. I consider this a much better grip for self defense applications.
Clay
Balisong forum Moderator
- Joined
- Jul 15, 1999
- Messages
- 871
Great question Donna!
And Chuck is right, I'm driving to Maine in July for a Bali -vs- Swithcblade showdown. We'll be trying different methods, so if you have any suggestions, please feel free.
I've gotten to the point where I can open my Bali as fast or faster than I can my Axis, or Sifu. Whats even more important to me is, I can open and stab with my Bali in the same movement, making it actually faster in "application" IMHO.
And even if I don't come out the clear cut winner, I'll only be losing by fractions of a second. Lets face it, when you're talking about self defense, it's how fast your sense of awareness kicks in that really makes the difference. The type of knife is not as important as sensing early enough that you'll need it.
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Clay
www.balisongxtreme.com
Because......
getting 'em open
is half the fun!
And Chuck is right, I'm driving to Maine in July for a Bali -vs- Swithcblade showdown. We'll be trying different methods, so if you have any suggestions, please feel free.
I've gotten to the point where I can open my Bali as fast or faster than I can my Axis, or Sifu. Whats even more important to me is, I can open and stab with my Bali in the same movement, making it actually faster in "application" IMHO.
And even if I don't come out the clear cut winner, I'll only be losing by fractions of a second. Lets face it, when you're talking about self defense, it's how fast your sense of awareness kicks in that really makes the difference. The type of knife is not as important as sensing early enough that you'll need it.
------------------
Clay
www.balisongxtreme.com
Because......
getting 'em open
is half the fun!
- Joined
- Jul 6, 1999
- Messages
- 1,151
IMHO opening a bali contains too much of subtle factors like direction of gravity, timing, muscle reaction, inertia, etc,etc to match an auto that will work independent of such conditions may vary. A bali may open slower, sometimes it may fail to open!
There is still a great advantage in balisong though. The owner tends to spend MUCH more time playing with, or practicing it than any other type of folding knife...
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\(^o^)/ Mizutani Satoshi \(^o^)/
There is still a great advantage in balisong though. The owner tends to spend MUCH more time playing with, or practicing it than any other type of folding knife...
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\(^o^)/ Mizutani Satoshi \(^o^)/
In my opinion, thumb hole folders are the fastest. I can open my Endura faster than automatics, and mucgh faster than balisongs. What´s interesting though about the wonderfully simplistic balisong design, you can use them very well when they are closed. You are probably trained in Filipino tabak maliit (did I spell right?) or "palmstick" techniques - perfect for balisongs, and real fast. Kobutan works as well.
This is an interesting issue from a fun point of view.
If you're proficient with either style knife, the results are probably insignificantly different.
Reliable controlled opening is more important than sheer speed.
One fast and reliable way to open a bali is to pop the latch with your pinkie finger, without turning the knife upside down and holding the unsafe handle rotate your wrist and flip the safe handle into position. When you close with this movement you will naturally be holding the safe handle.
Nothing new here, this movement is well known. And examples can be seen on videos.
One way to increase speed is to go to a smaller bali. But, here again the results are probably insignificantly different.
As with a lot of aspects of knives, it's a personal matter.
I'm faster and more reliablle with a thumb stud than a Spydie hole, but my daily carry is a Delica for other reasons. Ergonomics, grip and the superior cutting ability of a fully serrated edge. It's also considered to be a utility knife in court.
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Ron Knight
If you're proficient with either style knife, the results are probably insignificantly different.
Reliable controlled opening is more important than sheer speed.
One fast and reliable way to open a bali is to pop the latch with your pinkie finger, without turning the knife upside down and holding the unsafe handle rotate your wrist and flip the safe handle into position. When you close with this movement you will naturally be holding the safe handle.
Nothing new here, this movement is well known. And examples can be seen on videos.
One way to increase speed is to go to a smaller bali. But, here again the results are probably insignificantly different.
As with a lot of aspects of knives, it's a personal matter.
I'm faster and more reliablle with a thumb stud than a Spydie hole, but my daily carry is a Delica for other reasons. Ergonomics, grip and the superior cutting ability of a fully serrated edge. It's also considered to be a utility knife in court.
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Ron Knight
- Joined
- Nov 11, 1999
- Messages
- 398
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Last edited:
If you started with both your auto and your Balisong in the proper pre-opening grip, the auto would probaly win by 10th's of a second.
If you are talking about combat ready openings, then the Balisong ice-pick drop wins hands down. With the Balisong closed you have a solid grip and the knife can be used as a tabak maliit (yawara). You simply make a short forward wrist snap and as soon as you hand is closed you have a solid,
functional ice-pick grip. With the auto (or thumb stud folder) the pre-opening grip is pinched between your fingers. After the knife is open you have to readjust to some type of solid grip to continue.
If you are talking about combat ready openings, then the Balisong ice-pick drop wins hands down. With the Balisong closed you have a solid grip and the knife can be used as a tabak maliit (yawara). You simply make a short forward wrist snap and as soon as you hand is closed you have a solid,
functional ice-pick grip. With the auto (or thumb stud folder) the pre-opening grip is pinched between your fingers. After the knife is open you have to readjust to some type of solid grip to continue.
Ok,
I may be in the wrong thread, but you are talking about having a compitition between folding knives and balisongs in opening speed. Why stop at opening speed? You should have a compitition where you have to have the knife, either in your pocket, or in a closed sheath, and then you have to draw, open, cut/stab, close, and replace in pocket/sheath. I think that would make the balis much much more competetive!! some one might have already mentioned this, but I just thought about it yesterday when I was toying around... I had to open a couple boxes, and I could get my knife out, cut, and replace back in my pocket faster then with any on my one handed openers... although I am very quick with my 730 AXIS lock!
Oh, I can't wait for the BM42!! I need a quality bali!!
Well, any way, that is my .005 cent's worth
I may be in the wrong thread, but you are talking about having a compitition between folding knives and balisongs in opening speed. Why stop at opening speed? You should have a compitition where you have to have the knife, either in your pocket, or in a closed sheath, and then you have to draw, open, cut/stab, close, and replace in pocket/sheath. I think that would make the balis much much more competetive!! some one might have already mentioned this, but I just thought about it yesterday when I was toying around... I had to open a couple boxes, and I could get my knife out, cut, and replace back in my pocket faster then with any on my one handed openers... although I am very quick with my 730 AXIS lock!
Oh, I can't wait for the BM42!! I need a quality bali!!
Well, any way, that is my .005 cent's worth
Ok,
I may be in the wrong thread, but you are talking about having a compitition between folding knives and balisongs in opening speed. Why stop at opening speed? You should have a compitition where you have to have the knife, either in your pocket, or in a closed sheath, and then you have to draw, open, cut/stab, close, and replace in pocket/sheath. I think that would make the balis much much more competetive!! some one might have already mentioned this, but I just thought about it yesterday when I was toying around... I had to open a couple boxes, and I could get my knife out, cut, and replace back in my pocket faster then with any on my one handed openers... although I am very quick with my 730 AXIS lock!
Oh, I can't wait for the BM42!! I need a quality bali!!
Well, any way, that is my .005 cent's worth
I may be in the wrong thread, but you are talking about having a compitition between folding knives and balisongs in opening speed. Why stop at opening speed? You should have a compitition where you have to have the knife, either in your pocket, or in a closed sheath, and then you have to draw, open, cut/stab, close, and replace in pocket/sheath. I think that would make the balis much much more competetive!! some one might have already mentioned this, but I just thought about it yesterday when I was toying around... I had to open a couple boxes, and I could get my knife out, cut, and replace back in my pocket faster then with any on my one handed openers... although I am very quick with my 730 AXIS lock!
Oh, I can't wait for the BM42!! I need a quality bali!!
Well, any way, that is my .005 cent's worth
Gollnick
Musical Director
- Joined
- Mar 22, 1999
- Messages
- 29,258
Mr. Shrubba is correct, IMHO. The contest has to be draw from a streetable carry, open, and strike a target.
Mr. RKnight is also correct. The timers used in shooting competitions aren't exactly right. I have a little gadget myself that makes a beep tone in an earphone and then times how long it takes you to fire your gun from that tone. The clock is stoped is by the sound of the gun. So, I'm going to adapt this for Clay's showdown and perhaps as an experiment that might someday lead to a standard mechanism for such contests.
What I propose is a structure that holds a piece of 1/4" cotton rope vertical and tight in front of the contestant. A very thin wire is twisted into the rope.
When the judge presses a button, a bell will sound for the contestants to hear. Pressing this button will also start two electronic timers with 1/1000 second precision. At the sound of the bell, both contestants will draw their knives, open them, and slash the rope. Cutting the rope and the wire it contains will stop that contestant's timer.
This is NOT a contest for knife sharpness nor is it a contest of your rope slashing techniques such as those rope slashing contests that are occationally held. We're using 1/4" cotton rope and it's under tension. Any reasonably sharp knife with any reasonable slash technique should cut it easily. The purpose of the rope is to provide some support for the thin wire, to provide a much more visible target than an hair-thin wire, and to provide some reasonable bit of resistance to make sure that the contestants have a firm grip on their knife and a minimally stable stance. Slashing a piece of thin rope like this gives some semblance of practical application to this little contest.
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Chuck
Balisongs -- because it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!
http://www.balisongcollector.com
Mr. RKnight is also correct. The timers used in shooting competitions aren't exactly right. I have a little gadget myself that makes a beep tone in an earphone and then times how long it takes you to fire your gun from that tone. The clock is stoped is by the sound of the gun. So, I'm going to adapt this for Clay's showdown and perhaps as an experiment that might someday lead to a standard mechanism for such contests.
What I propose is a structure that holds a piece of 1/4" cotton rope vertical and tight in front of the contestant. A very thin wire is twisted into the rope.
When the judge presses a button, a bell will sound for the contestants to hear. Pressing this button will also start two electronic timers with 1/1000 second precision. At the sound of the bell, both contestants will draw their knives, open them, and slash the rope. Cutting the rope and the wire it contains will stop that contestant's timer.
This is NOT a contest for knife sharpness nor is it a contest of your rope slashing techniques such as those rope slashing contests that are occationally held. We're using 1/4" cotton rope and it's under tension. Any reasonably sharp knife with any reasonable slash technique should cut it easily. The purpose of the rope is to provide some support for the thin wire, to provide a much more visible target than an hair-thin wire, and to provide some reasonable bit of resistance to make sure that the contestants have a firm grip on their knife and a minimally stable stance. Slashing a piece of thin rope like this gives some semblance of practical application to this little contest.
------------------
Chuck
Balisongs -- because it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!
http://www.balisongcollector.com
- Joined
- Oct 16, 1998
- Messages
- 2,395
I think MY fastest butterfly opening where I grasp the latch handle and flip to an edge forward grip with one wrist motion is about as fast as a wrist flick or auto opening. Not as secure though.
Speed isn't everything though, you can do a partial-opening handle-whip extremely fast to get space to complete an opening technique. I practice that quite a bit, opening to a whip to the grasping hand or eyes. Just about gauranteed to get you space to complete the opening. The percieved time by the attacker is nil.
Speed isn't everything though, you can do a partial-opening handle-whip extremely fast to get space to complete an opening technique. I practice that quite a bit, opening to a whip to the grasping hand or eyes. Just about gauranteed to get you space to complete the opening. The percieved time by the attacker is nil.
- Joined
- Jul 6, 1999
- Messages
- 1,151
A thin rope as a target souds a nice idea. A knife must be held effectively, and also reach the target while a gun only needs to reach the "ready" position just out of the holster. There should be kept a traditional type target also. A rope will be a tough target for reverse grippers who favors latch opening.
OTOH, how about adding " funniest opening award " or " most unexpected knife dispatch award" into the contest?
My favorite opening now is "Iai" opening, swinging bali from down left to right up, flipping open the handle into the same direction. There is an advantage. While usual opening is done before or after drawing and positioning the bali, this way you can open the knife while drawing and moving it into the "ready" position.
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\(^o^)/ Mizutani Satoshi \(^o^)/
OTOH, how about adding " funniest opening award " or " most unexpected knife dispatch award" into the contest?
My favorite opening now is "Iai" opening, swinging bali from down left to right up, flipping open the handle into the same direction. There is an advantage. While usual opening is done before or after drawing and positioning the bali, this way you can open the knife while drawing and moving it into the "ready" position.
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\(^o^)/ Mizutani Satoshi \(^o^)/