Batoning and the definition of proper use vs abuse...

Marion David Poff

Marion David Poff

Joined
Oct 8, 1998
Messages
5,403
Well,

I love to see a good scrum.

So, I thought I would ask this question over here....

Over in WSS, we have been discussing batoning, and it's proper or improper use.

Batoning is the application of force via a baton/club/stick to the spine of a knife to drive the knife through the wood to split it.

This technique is nothing new.

Historically, wood has been split with billhooks (in England), froes, froe knives etc.

In modern times, Mors Kochanski, the author of Bushcraft instructs the reader in it's use.

But, some feel that doing so is abusive to a knife, others do not....

Where do you all hang your hat?

Marion
 
Just me, I think beating a piece of steel through a log is legit use of a knife.... Now chopping bricks is debatable;)
 
Depends on knife type...

It would be abuse for a thin ground hunter, folder or a kitchen knife, but it would be normal function for a camper or a fighter...
 
If a knife is properly designed for that use (i.e. thick spine, a little thicker of an edge, etc.) then I see nothing wrong with it. From what I've learned, the biggest point of failure during batoning is the failure of the user to strike the blade at the proper point. Striking the tip or too far back towards the handle causes stress that will cause the knife to fail.
 
As long as you don't hit it with something as hard or harder than the knife itself , it should be fine.
 
It depends on the knife. You just don't baton something like this:

3789390759_fef6898e8b_o.jpg


My great-grandfather's butcher's cleaver, on the other hand, has a mushroomed spine from being hammered through beef carcasses for 40 years. It still works just fine, too.

I even have folders I've batoned with (in a pinch, and carefully). It's not a problem if you're smart about it. It isn't even bad on the edge. I consider cutting on a hard surface (i.e. ceramic plate) to be greater abuse than proper batonning.
 
TekSec said:
If a knife is properly designed for that use (i.e. thick spine, a little thicker of an edge, etc.) then I see nothing wrong with it. From what I've learned, the biggest point of failure during batoning is the failure of the user to strike the blade at the proper point. Striking the tip or too far back towards the handle causes stress that will cause the knife to fail.
Click to expand...

Or, in some case, a little thinner spine! I tend to expect my 3/32 thick slab sided blades to get batoned.


Striking the right spot is a very good point. And obviously there are issues with sharp shoulders on some hollow grinds and some production through tangs. Heat treat or other design features will have an effect.

What contsitutes batoning is also important to think about- splitting planks and batoning notches is a different task from splitting firewood out of a 2 foot diameter seasoned burly maple stump! (Which I use a maul and sledgehammer for, no AXE can handle the job.)
 
If i thought my knife wouldn't handle it i wouldn't buy one, not because i plan on battoning, but because forcing a knife to cut wood ( a much more inferior material as far as strength is concered) is something i would concider a No $*** senario, I already expect tempered steel to do so as well as have a handle that stands up to the shock of it. Failure of a blade to do so, would definitely get it off my recommended blade list.

I concider this debate semantical. I think both sides are right. It is not the design of a knife to split wood, it is not the design of the spine to recieve hard impacts. however any knife that couldn't handle it would not be very practical, and thereby not fit for outdoor suvival or hard use, rendering it ineffective as a tool in the very place it is most useful.
 
ron_m80 said:
If i thought my knife wouldn't handle it i wouldn't buy one, not because i plan on battoning, but because forcing a knife to cut wood ( a much more inferior material as far as strength is concered) is something i would concider a No $*** senario, I already expect tempered steel to do so as well as have a handle that stands up to the shock of it. Failure of a blade to do so, would definitely get it off my recommended blade list.

I concider this debate semantical. I think both sides are right. It is not the design of a knife to split wood, it is not the design of the spine to recieve hard impacts. however any knife that couldn't handle it would not be very practical, and thereby not fit for outdoor suvival or hard use, rendering it ineffective as a tool in the very place it is most useful.
Click to expand...

I'm afraid this generalization is not so right. There are very delicate edges specifically designed for different purposes. The razor posted above is an example. My reed knives' edges are too delicate for their hardness point. It is possible to make them as you said, they will be able to withstand the foces applied to baton the knife on a log but then they will be useless for their applications. I think to make a tough and strong knife is not so hard for a normal knife maker, there are much more variables on the design. The designed knife would be not so tough, it maybe on the brittle side, but it would be spot on on the purpose. A scapel would be very high in quality, made by very qualified maker, it would be very expensive and it would be loved by the user, but it doesn't mean it would baton a wood block. You are right if you said "a camp/survival/outdoor knife couldn't handle it ..." it would be totally right, but not "any knife" should handle it...
 
Batonning wood for shelter or firebuilding is part of what I expect a combat, survival, bushcraft or camping knife to be able to handle. Either with or across the grain. Many hunting and EDC knives can handle it as well, but it wouldn't be as "necessary" for me on a knife like that; if the customer wants to be able to do it, yes even a smaller, thinner blade can certainly be designed and built to withstand batonning. Guys post pics of doing it with Mora's all the time; given proper technique it's not that big of a deal.

I would not recommend batonning any folder, although I know it has been done. Nor would I recommend batonning with any hollow-ground knife, just because I don't think the geometry is optimum for splitting things apart.

Filet knives or razors, no. Kitchen knives... not on wood, but I've split many a melon by batonning a chef's knife through it.
 
galadduin said:
A scapel would be very high in quality, made by very qualified maker, it would be very expensive and it would be loved by the user, but it doesn't mean it would baton a wood block. You are right if you said "a camp/survival/outdoor knife couldn't handle it ..." it would be totally right, but not "any knife" should handle it...
Click to expand...

Touche' , and quite right i was remiss in making my comment accurate.
 
as many have already stated, depends on the knife. If it was designed for that purpose then no, it's not abuse. But designed for any other actions, then yes, it qualifies for abuse.

just my $0.02.
 
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