Belt comparisons?

C

comet_sharp

Joined
Aug 22, 2016
Messages
256
Hey guys,
About to order my second batch of belts and am wondering what people think about the Norton Blaze vs VSM belts and gators/trizac/norax comparisons.
I mainly grind 52100 post HT but will be doing a batch of AEB-L in the next month or two. I have been doing my rough grinding with VSM 50 grit (the cheaper ones) and they have been working fine as long as I run them fast but I notice they don't cut as well when I get close to finishing my bevels. My blades are usually 6-10" long blades on kitchen knives so wide bevels and lots of meat to remove since I do it all post HT. The VSM 120grit belts seem to have an even less life span trying to clean up all the 50 grit scratches, so I might try 60grit instead of 50 for my bevels this run. Just wondering if the extra 3-5$ a belt is worth it to try out the Norton Blaze, if anyone who has used both can compare. Also tried a few of the Norton Bluefire 120 grit and they seemed to cut much better than the VSM 120 for me.
I grind my edges to < .005" and have been using the Norax belts to clean them up before hand sanding because the gators seemed aggressive, but I also only tried the gator in 120g. The Norax seem to have a decent lifespan. I like to start hand sanding at 400 grit so I've been taking them up to x45 Norax belts, one or 2 passes with a grey scotch brite belt and then handing from 400 up there and seems to be working alright. Any suggestions before I order this next round of belts would be helpful. Thank you all very much.
-Trey / Comet
 
I bought ten vsm 50 grit and ten 120 to try. They just don't last for me as long at cubitron 2 984 belts. I don't like j weight belts at all so I go from 120 grit cubitron to a100 trizacts. From there either finer trizacts or norax. Trizacts last longer norax cut faster.

Just my opinion.
 
Thanks kuraki. I'll probably try ordering half blaze/cubitron 2 984 in 50/60 and 120 grit. Then I'll try a few Trizact/gator up to 400 grit and see which works best for me. For roughing bevels in hardened steel do you see much difference between the 50 and 60 grit belts?
 
Not really. The VSM were only available in 50 but I buy cubitron in 60. Also 80, which I don't use a lot but sometimes they are handy when grinding post heat treat reveals an oops that you could fix with 60 but would take longer to refinish.

I'm pretty much down to only buying cubitron 60, 120, trizacts a100, a65, a30 and norax in the same 3 grits, for steel. I still buy cheap zirconium and aluminum oxide for handles.
 
I use 50 grit baze for most of the grinding befor and after heat treat. I then switch to a A300,A160,A100,A65 and then start hand sanding. I don't really care for the gator belts after the A65 thy don't seam to cut well for me and glaze over quickly.
 
The vsm are junk. Use the merrit ceramic same price and last twice as long. For finishing bevels or spine I always use j flex or trizact (not gator). Norax is nice but epensive.

Progression usually is 60g ceramic, 120 ao, a45, a30, a16 and maybe a6.

Cubitron is definitely a great belt, but in the 50-60 it last just a little longer than the merrit but cost twice as much.
 
The middle picture is a30 on my horizontal grinder, horizontal makes a huge difference with finish when using belts
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These are timascus scales finished to a6 with my horizontal as well.
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I really need a horizontal grinder. I have gotten good finishes with the A45 and a30 but it seams a tad more tricky.
 
I switched from Blaze to the Cubitron 2 984 because of the "gummy" issues with the Blaze belts. I am told they fixed that.
 
Thanks guys for all the responses! Seems like cubitron 2 984 in 60/120. Plain Trizact in A100 to A30 just like Kuraki's order. As long as I can get my bevels ground without killing 2 50 and 2 120 grit belts and get a finish I can start handsanding at 400 I'll be grinning ear to ear. The VSM 50 grit I could get bevels ground on 1 6" knife but when I did a 10" it took me 2 and the 120grit belts seemed to quit cutting pretty quickly and got insanely hot super quick, the blue Nortons worked much better which gives me high hopes for the 984s.
 
I have used Cubitron belts for quite a while now and just recently have been buying 60 grit Blaze belts for cutting the initial bevels on my blades. I feel that I can control them well and the prices are good. I love putting on a new belt often...nothing straightens out your grind like a new belt. I love Norax but they cost a bunch and do not last like the Trizact belts. I still keep a couple Norax belts in 65X and 45X to clean things up when the grinding slows down. I have been using VSM 100 grit belts in my surface grinding attachment but I throw them away after a few blades. I bought a couple of the Merit belts but have not used them yet. I am now addicted to cork belts in 400, 600, and 800 grit which I like when finishing after heat treat. I like the gator belts for cleaning up plunge lines. If one can afford it he should have a bunch of ALL of these belts and use what works and throw them away before they cause problems. I am finally learning to discard old belts and put new ones on often...I really think it helps me produce better blades. Larry


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LARRYZ10 said:
If one can afford it he should have a bunch of ALL of these belts and use what works and throw them away before they cause problems. I am finally learning to discard old belts and put new ones on often...I really think it helps me produce better blades. Larry
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Wisdom^^^


Everyone has to find what works for them. Half the belts listed in this thread don't work for me at all, so this HAS to be greatly affected by grind style. Only way to find out is to try, I fear.

Regardless, Larry nailed it. When your knife is dull, you sharpen it. A belt is no different. Once you feel it stop cutting, its dull - sharpening it, in this case, means replacing it. I'd rather use a heap of fresh belts and nail the grinds than roach a blade. The problem, of course, when you try to get away with using a dull one, is that it screws something up that's MUCH harder to fix than just applying another $8 belt...
 
Belts are designed to break down and expose new sharp edges on the the abrasive. If they don't break down, they go dull and the belt seems to just wear out even though there is clearly more abrasive left. Too much pressure and the abrasive wears out quickly, too little pressure and the belt just goes dull.

AO belts are the most friable, meaning it breaks down quickly, ceramic the hardest and zirc is in between. The hardness of the material being ground matters. If you take hardened steel to an AO belt, it's going to wear out quickly. AO works great on wood, plastic, leather etc. Ceramics, generally, work better on hardened steel.

The higher the speed or pressure applied when grinding makes a difference in how the abrasive particles break down. Everyone grinds with different pressure and speed. The material being ground matters. Low allow carbon steel grinds much easier than high alloy stainless steels. A zirc would be better here. Take the same low alloy carbon blade that is hardened and covered in scale, a few quick passes on a ceramic at high speed might work best.

A belt that works great for one guy might be a dud for the next guy to try it. One guys "best belt ever!" is the another guys "tried it, hated it".

Best advice I can offer is to try several brands and types. Note which ones work best for you. Be aware that as your grinding skills improve, your belt preference may also change.
Some brands of belts are all about performance, some are all about economy.

Use cheap AO's on wood, plastic and other natural materials. I tend to use ceramics for fast, all out hogging, then I switch to zircs when I slow the grinder down for the "2nd half" of a blade.

The hardest thing about learning to grind using any belts is to throw them away. A dull belt heats up the blade faster, drags, skips and forces you to use more pressure than is comfortable and controllable. If you ever struggle with a grind, switch to a brand new belt and feel things get way easier. No one wants to throw $5 in the trash but it's something you have to come to terms with. Budget to throw away at least one belt for each knife (and then actually throw it away) and your grinding will improve significantly.
 
Where are those Merritts sold? I'm firmly in the camp of try as many as you can.
 
As has been stated, everyone has a different preference based on how they grind. I like blaze belts in 36, 60, 120. Then I switch to Klingspor j flex in 220 and 400. Then I use a 22 Norax. After that I hand sand.
I have tried lots of belts and this is what I like best today.
 
kuraki said:
Where are those Merritts sold? I'm firmly in the camp of try as many as you can.
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Check on trugrit.

I've pretty much tried every belt company, last year alone I spent $9k on belts. Your machines and what you want to do like Matt says has a huge affect in what belts will work for you. Another important thing is as your skills increase so will your preference and sensitivity to belts. You have to buy and try that's the only way. When I first started I bought so many belts but kept with klinspor x weight for everything, even hollow grinding... you can imainge my surprise how much easier it was when I used j flex belts on a faded plunge free hand. This x flex probably cost me an extra 20-30 practice blades because I couldn't get big scratches out.
 
hm, so much good info here. Thank you everyone. Looks like I'll be trying a little bit of everything!
 
kuraki said:
Where are those Merritts sold? I'm firmly in the camp of try as many as you can.
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Kuraki, Tru Grit has Merit belts. I have some but have not tested them yet. If you are going to order some then take a minute to look at the Hermes belts in 120 and 220 grit. They are blue colored and I have been using them with good results and the prices are very reasonable. You are right to want to try many different belts because we all grind at different speeds and different pressures and you may find belts that perform well for your grinding style by trying a lot of different belts. I am liking the "Zirc" belts for the speed and the stainless steel that I like to grind. Larry
 
Yeah, try those Merit belts. I have used a bunch of the different 3M ceramics, culminating in using the 984's for a while, and I went through a long Blaze phase too. Lately I got sick of paying $10 or so for roughing belts, and have been using 4-5 dollar Merit belts. The abrasive on them is good, the red ceramics last OK- I like them in 36 grit better than 50, and the 120 are decent. What I really had fun with today was the green zirc 24 grit Merit belts, which are less than $4 apiece. That's a lot of mean and nasty hogging for the money! I dulled up three of them today grinding chefs out of 304/52100 san mai. Like any other belt, 304 will clog it by smearing the surface, but before that happened I got a whole lot of awful crusty scale and gross gummy stainless torn off. And, in the end I'd tossed 3 belts, for a grand total of like $11 rather than probably three 984's for a total of $30.
I've been digging on that new sharp belt feeling, and then tossing 'cause I can afford to.
And yes, TruGrit.
 
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