Belt Sander - Edge Position Question

K

Kerneldrop

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Jun 13, 2021
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I imagine this depends on the person --but generally --are better results obtained by using an edge leading or edge trailing position on an upright belt sander?
I just started with zero experience, but I feel like I prefer edge leading.
If better results are generally obtained edge trailing, then I'll start practicing that way.

I've yet to get sharp results...but I will get there with practicing good techniques.

I have a Rikon VS. I can make a box to where it can lay down, but right now it's upright.

Thank you
 
I've gone both ways.

USE A SHARPIE marker to mark where you will be grinding to make sure you're doing what you want.

I've found going slow and checking progress repeatedly yields the best results regardless of edge orientation.

That being said, I've been able to have a higher degree of precision by having the edge up.
I have a better idea of what is going on at the moment visually this way.

good luck!
 
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tinfoil hat timmy said:
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Thank you. I feel like I'm more precise edge up, too. It feels weird edge down when stropping.
It's neat watching the burr form and disappear. I didn't know that was the burr until watching a video.

I can produce the shiniest mirror dull edge, ever seen. ha

Kalamazoo has a multi-position 1x42 sander if I just can't make it work and want to blame it on the fixed position, ha
I thought about jumping in head-first with that one, but decided on the Rikon.
I didn't see the fixed position Kalamazoo until after I ordered the Rikon.
 
If you aren't making sharp edges then something needs to change. Maybe try one of these things (at a time):

1. Do an entire blade edge trailing instead.
2. Try stropping on a leather belt EDGE TRAILING, after you do your sharpening process edge leading. It's important to always do edge trailing with a leather belt. Otherwise you will cut it and it will hit you in the face, arm, neck, etc and make you unhappy.
3. After edge leading sharpening, use a fixed angle manual system like a SharpMaker for 5 or 6 strokes per side.

Numbers 2 and 3 are an attempt to address having a residual burr. Number 1 is to see if you are rounding the edge excessively by doing edge leading.

Finally, I'll note that when I do edge trailing sharpening on a belt, I am a fan of putting my off hand fingers right up to the edge of the blade, very close to where it contacts the belt. This allows you to sense the angle of contact between the edge bevels and the belt in a very visceral way. You can really feel it when it makes flat contact. This is exactly the same as what I describe in secrets #1 and 2. You could probably do this edge leading as well, but I would think that would be much more dangerous for my fingers and I happen to like my fingers. :)

Good luck to you.
Brian.
 
Personally I would not run the edge into the belt on off chance it catches on the edge of the belt. I also suspect it might decrease belt life.

My process is generally 120 grit belt, raise a burr one side, raise a burr other side, fold burr over using an aluminum dowel.

Increase working angle about 10-15° and manually pushing the belt I "brush off" the burr with a leading pass until I cannot feel it or see it with cursory visual inspection.

Finish manually on a stone or plate with a microbevel or on a leather belt - my leather belt has developed a mad chatter and I'm too cheap to replace it. Had issues with it from the get-go...

I use a guide.
 
Thank you. I'll give edge trailing a bit more practice and see what improvements I make.
I might lay down the belt sander and try edge trailing that way.
I noticed on various YouTube videos that knife makers are sharpening edge trailing and on a horizontal belt, rather than upright.

Do the silicone carbide belts sharpen the higher vanadium blades like the modern Benchmade and Spyderco steels being used, just to name examples?
 
Kerneldrop said:
Thank you. I'll give edge trailing a bit more practice and see what improvements I make.
I might lay down the belt sander and try edge trailing that way.
I noticed on various YouTube videos that knife makers are sharpening edge trailing and on a horizontal belt, rather than upright.

Do the silicone carbide belts sharpen the higher vanadium blades like the modern Benchmade and Spyderco steels being used, just to name examples?
Click to expand...
I use alumina ceramic. I actually avoid anything finer than a 220 grit belt as they generate too much heat - most of my work is on 120 Norton Blaze. Even the scotchbrite polishing belts can heat up the blade a bit. At that level they all work on high Vanadium but you'll need something else for the finish work that has diamond or CbN. Some folks might have good luck without, but I personally have not.
 
I need to look into either diamond bench stones or a guided system with diamond attachments.
It seems that I'm mostly set up for kitchen knives...and that is not by intentional design.
I have paper wheels, SiC belts, and Naniwa stones.

It didn't dawn on me until now, but the online videos demonstrating wheels or belts are mostly with kitchen knives.
I haven't come across a video of a 4" high vanadium blade being sharpened.

I guess I jumped head first without knowing the chlorine content
 
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Kerneldrop said:
I imagine this depends on the person --but generally --are better results obtained by using an edge leading or edge trailing position on an upright belt sander?
I just started with zero experience, but I feel like I prefer edge leading.
If better results are generally obtained edge trailing, then I'll start practicing that way.

I've yet to get sharp results...but I will get there with practicing good techniques.

I have a Rikon VS. I can make a box to where it can lay down, but right now it's upright.

Thank you
Click to expand...
RJ Martin taught a sharpening class at Blade show 2021.

When asked, he said edge trailing.
 
What belt material is recommended for sharpening the higher vanadium blades?

I ordered a Silicone Carbide belt kit without knowing what I was getting. It has from 80-1,000 grit.

So far in my journey I’ve learned there’s sharpening, sharpening, and then sharpening. And each need different abrasive materials and techniques. Lol. That’s what makes it fun for me, though. Of course it would have been cheaper to know that ahead of time
 
Kerneldrop said:
What belt material is recommended for sharpening the higher vanadium blades?

I ordered a Silicone Carbide belt kit without knowing what I was getting. It has from 80-1,000 grit.

So far in my journey I’ve learned there’s sharpening, sharpening, and then sharpening. And each need different abrasive materials and techniques. Lol. That’s what makes it fun for me, though. Of course it would have been cheaper to know that ahead of time
Click to expand...
If you can slow down your belt grinder, there are diamond belts available. Using them at full speed is not a good idea.

Diamonds are not needed at lower grit value. My silicone carbide belts don't last as long as my alumina ceramic belts.

The higher the grit value the more rapidly you will heat the edge. Unless doing cosmetic work, fine abrasives are not needed on the grinder beyond some form of finishing belt or wheel, or finish by hand on diamond or CbN.
 
K, thank you. The Rikon goes down to 1909 SFPM. I'll go back to the drawing board and adjust my setup.
 
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I’ve done it both ways. I’ve found edge trailing best for free hand with no platen on a belt sander to be best when utilizing a convex edge. If using a platen free hand, again edge trailing. However when I’m sharpening a lot of knives I prefer to use a guide. I’ve got guides for both edge trailing and edge leading. I have found with a guide it seems to be easier to do edge leading. With edge trailing the belt has the tendency to pull the knife away from the guide vs push back against the guide.

I’ve had a belt “grab” a knife when edge leading and literally throw it out of my hand. It’s less likely to do this with edge trailing. If you accidentally increase the angle to much when edge leading this can easily happen.

I’m no expert just my experience
 
On the subject of using a guide and having the belt grab the blade: Here's a very short video I made to show how the maker of the KallyRest recommends that you prevent that. It works quite well.


Brian.
 
Ryansknives said:
I’ve done it both ways. I’ve found edge trailing best for free hand with no platen on a belt sander to be best when utilizing a convex edge. If using a platen free hand, again edge trailing. However when I’m sharpening a lot of knives I prefer to use a guide. I’ve got guides for both edge trailing and edge leading. I have found with a guide it seems to be easier to do edge leading. With edge trailing the belt has the tendency to pull the knife away from the guide vs push back against the guide.

I’ve had a belt “grab” a knife when edge leading and literally throw it out of my hand. It’s less likely to do this with edge trailing. If you accidentally increase the angle to much when edge leading this can easily happen.
Click to expand...

Thank you. I've been practicing edge trailing since making the original post. I'm getting more comfortable with it.
Microtech has a Youtube video where the founder sharpens on a belt...he makes it look so easy to get hair-shaving sharp. LOL


bgentry said:
On the subject of using a guide and having the belt grab the blade: Here's a very short video I made to show how the maker of the KallyRest recommends that you prevent that. It works quite well.
Click to expand...

What type of belts do you use?
 

Tru Grit, Inc. | The Leading Edge in Abrasives and Knifemaking Supplies

trugrit.com trugrit.com

Not sure how to make it an active link I’m kinda computer dumb. But check out this website. You can select the belt size ect. They have a large selection of belts.

They do have a large selection of 1x30 belts that is broke people use. For my personal use I use a Trizact 240 grit and 600 grit belts. As well as a Norax 1200 grit and 3000 grit.

I primarily use the 600 grit. The skip everything else to the leather belt for power stropping. They do get nice and shiny if you work them a bit but I don’t really care about shiny for my kitchen knives. Use a good green compound on the strop.

For my pocket knives I go up to the 1200 grit then strop just because I like to show them off to my friends. Gets a nice bright shine. I have used the 3000 grit but let me gravely warn you the blade will heat up very fast with the 3000 grit belt. Higher grit faster heat build up. Keep a big bowl of ice water near dunk your knife often. With a 3000 grit belt dunk every pass and with big knives only do half the blade then dunk then then finish dunk. The long blade will take longer so very fast heat into the blade you will burn up your blade. With a big grit belt you have to work fast on these 1x30s. They are going really fast.

I keep 120grit and even a 36 grit belt on hand if I have to hog down an axe / machete or lawn mower blade. But it’s not often I use them. I just buy whatever 120grit and grit belts at Home Depot / Lowe’s
 
Yesterday evening I was able to achieve a hair-shaving edge on a Rada kitchen knife using the belt sander. I know that's not a super-steel, but a successful result none the less.
I used an angle cube to see what ~20 degrees looks like.
I naturally want to hold 11-12 degrees but could never get a sharp blade.
 
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