Belt Sander Setup

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Aug 3, 2009
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1,575
A few days ago I got a comment on my old WorkSharp Ken Onion Free Hand Sharpening video.
It said that the Blade Grinding Attachment really changed the WSKO and made it a better freehand sharpening tool.

I've known this for years and have been avoiding spending the extra money. Though it's quite affordable now at ~$70 including one set of belts. It's tempting.

But now I have some space for tools and I think I want a real belt sander. I've done reading over the years and did an hour of research before posting. I'm not sure what setup would be good for sharpening.

The Veil S5 and the Kalamazoo SM1 are both recommended a lot. Steve Bottorf seems to have a variable speed setup for sale, but this page I'm going to link to is "hidden" in that I can't seem to find it on the main site. Google has it but... I wonder if Steve is still doing business, and/or if he is selling this setup still.

https://sharpeningmadeeasy.com/belt.htm
(scroll down to "for use with PSI variable speed motor)

But is a 1x42 really a great setup for sharpening? I ask because the WSKO, while really decent, is not very good for deburring. Though I've just begun experimenting with running it backwards (turning the machine around) and sharpening edge leading for finishing. I've had somewhat encouraging results deburring this way.

It seems like I might also need a buffer with a paper wheel, cotton flap wheel, or (Jason B recommendation) a scotchbright wheel. I can stomach the extra cost if it will simplify deburring.

...and speaking of the burr... I've had some accidental times when the light was set up right with the WSKO where I could actually watch the burr forming. It appeared as a very obvious line of reflected light at the belt contact point. That was really cool and I would love to set up my new system so I can see the burr forming. It really saves time and builds confidence to not have to use fingers or something else to check for the burr. It's rare to have such a positive indication of burr formation as a clear reflection. I know some guys run paper wheel setups with the wheel rotating away from them so they can do the same thing: Overhead light and edge on top of the wheel, so they can easily see the burr forming.

In short I guess I'm looking for sage recommendations of a powered setup like this that works well.

Thanks,

Brian.
 
A few days ago I got a comment on my old WorkSharp Ken Onion Free Hand Sharpening video.
It said that the Blade Grinding Attachment really changed the WSKO and made it a better freehand sharpening tool.

I've known this for years and have been avoiding spending the extra money. Though it's quite affordable now at ~$70 including one set of belts. It's tempting.

But now I have some space for tools and I think I want a real belt sander. I've done reading over the years and did an hour of research before posting. I'm not sure what setup would be good for sharpening.

The Veil S5 and the Kalamazoo SM1 are both recommended a lot. Steve Bottorf seems to have a variable speed setup for sale, but this page I'm going to link to is "hidden" in that I can't seem to find it on the main site. Google has it but... I wonder if Steve is still doing business, and/or if he is selling this setup still.

https://sharpeningmadeeasy.com/belt.htm
(scroll down to "for use with PSI variable speed motor)

But is a 1x42 really a great setup for sharpening? I ask because the WSKO, while really decent, is not very good for deburring. Though I've just begun experimenting with running it backwards (turning the machine around) and sharpening edge leading for finishing. I've had somewhat encouraging results deburring this way.

It seems like I might also need a buffer with a paper wheel, cotton flap wheel, or (Jason B recommendation) a scotchbright wheel. I can stomach the extra cost if it will simplify deburring.

...and speaking of the burr... I've had some accidental times when the light was set up right with the WSKO where I could actually watch the burr forming. It appeared as a very obvious line of reflected light at the belt contact point. That was really cool and I would love to set up my new system so I can see the burr forming. It really saves time and builds confidence to not have to use fingers or something else to check for the burr. It's rare to have such a positive indication of burr formation as a clear reflection. I know some guys run paper wheel setups with the wheel rotating away from them so they can do the same thing: Overhead light and edge on top of the wheel, so they can easily see the burr forming.

In short I guess I'm looking for sage recommendations of a powered setup like this that works well.

Thanks,

Brian.

Steve is still in business... send him an email, he's pretty good at responding (although keep in mind it's Christmas). :) He sells the Viel and adapter last time I heard... but you have to get the motor direct from Penn State ( https://www.pennstateind.com/store/TCLVSKIT.html ).

Another alternative... Curry Custom Cutlery (on Facebook) has an adapter kit that will adapt the same Penn State motor to a HF 1x30 sander. Cliff's a good guy to deal with. (He might also sell an adapter for the Viel... not sure). He does a lot of testing with variable speed setups... you'll find it on YouTube, if you haven't run across him already.
 
@bgentry
Have you thought about a Tormek T4 and a knife jig? It would be close to the cost of several of the belt grinders you mentioned and can produce a very nice guided grind/edge.
 
My experience on my modified HF 1x30 leads me to recommend variable speed reversible motor.

I am able to remove 90% of the burr by slowly running the belt into the edge at slow speed. I also am able to use diamond belts, which are very inexpensive in that size.

You will want some form of finishing wheel, I have never been satisfied with the edges straight off the belts, even finished with leather. I normally finish mine on an 8k waterstone, but a buffing or paper wheel also reported to work very well.

I cannot comment on the build quality of some of the commercial units. On the HF I had to true up the main drive wheel and finesse the idler pullys a bit. Is not a good choice for regrinds but works well for sharpening.
 
Steve is still in business... send him an email, he's pretty good at responding (although keep in mind it's Christmas). :) He sells the Viel and adapter last time I heard... but you have to get the motor direct from Penn State ( https://www.pennstateind.com/store/TCLVSKIT.html ).

I just emailed Steve and will wait for his response. Did you notice what the Penn page says? "On Sale" in one corner. Then underneath it, "unavailable, discontinued". That's no fun.

Ever since I saw Ken Schwartz's VFD setup that's reversible and can run at a snail's pace, I've wanted something like that. But not as crazy as Ken's. I think his uses a 2 or 3 HP motor and the sander is a 2x72? I think. I'm looking for the "lite" version of that. Reversible seems like a really good feature to have. That, or mount the sander on something that I can spin around and use from either side for edge trailing most of the time and edge leading for deburring.

Brian.
 
@bgentry
Have you thought about a Tormek T4 and a knife jig? It would be close to the cost of several of the belt grinders you mentioned and can produce a very nice guided grind/edge.

Over the years I've been here and on a couple of other sharpening forums, I've read quite a number of posts about the Tormek. I LOVE that it's water cooled. Mostly because dust production is probably very low, and of course because it cools the blade somewhat. But... I've read many times that Tormek really isn't designed for knives. It's supposed to be more for woodworking tools. It's also a little weird to me that it's essentially a "two grit system" (if I'm remembering right). So it's not as flexible as a belt sander system (in terms of the selection of abrasives.)

So, in short, I don't think the Tormek is the right tool for me.

Thanks,
Brian.
 
My experience on my modified HF 1x30 leads me to recommend variable speed reversible motor.

Do I remember correctly that you repurposed a motor from a treadmill to do this? I would probably need a good bit of help to do something similar.

You will want some form of finishing wheel, I have never been satisfied with the edges straight off the belts, even finished with leather. I normally finish mine on an 8k waterstone, but a buffing or paper wheel also reported to work very well.

So even when you are doing sharpening commercially, you do your last stage deburr on a waterstone? I think you are more skilled than I am with stones. I always seem to take a comparatively long time deburring on stones (or in my case, diamond plates). I can do it, but it's not efficient. I'd really like to be able to deburr a blade in about 60 seconds total. I think I would smile for weeks if I could get the right combination of tools and technique to do that!

Jason B has mentioned a cotton flap wheel in the past... or was it just a "regular" cotton wheel? I will occasionally be doing serrated blades too and would like to be able to polish the burr off of the serrated side. Which probably means I'll need a flexible wheel of some sort (cotton). Or have to use a more manual tool like a sharpmaker or something.

Thanks for all the comments everyone. :)

Brian.
 
Do I remember correctly that you repurposed a motor from a treadmill to do this? I would probably need a good bit of help to do something similar.



So even when you are doing sharpening commercially, you do your last stage deburr on a waterstone? I think you are more skilled than I am with stones. I always seem to take a comparatively long time deburring on stones (or in my case, diamond plates). I can do it, but it's not efficient. I'd really like to be able to deburr a blade in about 60 seconds total. I think I would smile for weeks if I could get the right combination of tools and technique to do that!

Jason B has mentioned a cotton flap wheel in the past... or was it just a "regular" cotton wheel? I will occasionally be doing serrated blades too and would like to be able to polish the burr off of the serrated side. Which probably means I'll need a flexible wheel of some sort (cotton). Or have to use a more manual tool like a sharpmaker or something.

Thanks for all the comments everyone. :)

Brian.
I do have a DC motor repurposed from some decommisioned equipment at work.

I'm able to go from the belt to my waterstone due to the guide being common to both, so I set the bevel and go straight to a finishing stone for a microbevel.

I have yet to get comfortable using any powered sharpener without a guide for anything but axes, hatchets, lawnmower blades.
 
I just emailed Steve and will wait for his response. Did you notice what the Penn page says? "On Sale" in one corner. Then underneath it, "unavailable, discontinued". That's no fun.
...
Brian.

Bummer... it didn't say that when I looked yesterday. But I did read somewhere a while back that they were discontinuing that one for one with a bit more HP... which it looks like they did.... https://www.pennstateind.com/store/TCLVSKIT2.html

p.s. You might consider joining the "Sharpening with Viel" group on Facebook... there's some good info there... for example, one guy added a "reversing switch" to his Penn State motor.
 
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Over the years I've been here and on a couple of other sharpening forums, I've read quite a number of posts about the Tormek. I LOVE that it's water cooled. Mostly because dust production is probably very low, and of course because it cools the blade somewhat. But... I've read many times that Tormek really isn't designed for knives. It's supposed to be more for woodworking tools. It's also a little weird to me that it's essentially a "two grit system" (if I'm remembering right). So it's not as flexible as a belt sander system (in terms of the selection of abrasives.)

So, in short, I don't think the Tormek is the right tool for me.

Thanks,
Brian.
With all due respect I've been using Tormeks (first a T2000 and now a T8) for over 20 years and get great edges from these machines. In Europe these are used more for knives than other tools with the three available knife jigs.
These machines are more that "two grit systems". How you dress the wheel's surface can give a wide variety of aggressiveness. I use diamond coated bars to lightly touch the wheel to change to the grind I am wanting. Tormeks produce a nicer "V" edge than my Reeder 2x72, but the 2x72 does have a wider variety of belt grits, speeds up power stropping and brushing with 3M Scotch Brite belts. I do all my free hand sharpening on a 2x72 along with guided sharpening using a Reeder knife jig on the platen. Two Striders done on a Tormek...
rsz_SMF SNG Edge.jpg
 
I personally have had good results with a 1 by 30 using a 400 grit belt to remove serious damage, a 1000 grit belt for sharpening from dull and a leather belt with white compound for most of my maintenance sharpening and refining.
 
I have a 1x42 Kalamazoo. I dont sharpen very much anymore, but I just used it the other day. For me, after creating the new edge, and then progressing through the belts (220-2000), I usually only have a very light burr left which is easily removed on a leather belt charged with 1 micron boron carbide. I have leather charged with other things (cbn, diamond) all the way down to .25 micron, but I often end with just the 1 micron bc. It leaves a nice toothy edge that I personally really like. But it's also very aggressive at taking off that final bit of burr.
 
I've used a 1x42 Kalamazoo for years and it's a fine machine. I use a Grizzly knife grinder/buffer for my heavy material removal and finish my refinements on the Kalamazoo.
 
Brian - really interested to hear more from you. Your posts here and videos on the WSKO have been so fundamental in teaching me to sharpen.

I’m using the WSKO-BGA for powered sharpening. I’ve been playing with paper wheels, but prefer a belt grinder to the wheels thus far.

grizzly has a new 1x30 variable speed with a disc sander attached. It seems like a really good buy to have the disc sander for flattening scales and blades. I don’t think I can link to it here but you can find it on their site.

I’ve talked to Curry and some other sharpening suppliers. This seems like the best bet without having to make lots of diy modifications or invest a few thousand.
 
I'm shopping for 1x42 belts as part of this. I'd like to get a small assortment of popular belts to play with. Including something like Trizact, Blaze, Cubitron, and definitely a scotchbright belt, and maybe linen and leather.

Can anyone recommend a good source for belts? Out of maybe 5 or 6 web sites I've found, I haven't found any with a wide selection. I'm probably looking in the wrong place or for the wrong thing. Well.. to be totally clear, I did find one place that has a huge selection. But they only sell packs of 50 belts at a time, which are around $300 per pack. Obviously not viable for a hobbyist like me.

Thanks,
Brian.

PS: CasePeanut: It makes me happy that you learned something from me. Maybe (just maybe), I'll do another video once I get a belt sander setup going.
 
I had not tried either until you recommended them Mr. Wizard. Thank you!

Still trying to decide on a variable speed setup, versus a packaged "done deal" with the Kalamazoo....

Brian.
 
The Kalamazoo runs at a very controllable speed. Unless you need more "oomph" for really hogging off steel in a jiffy it should suffice as-is. :)
 
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