Benchmade 3v

Carlito86 · May 15, 2019

Very very disappointing. What Is the point finally? Getting customer disappointed? And for what? Gaining another 2usd because It Is easyer to grind or cheaper? At the risk of loosing customer? Who Is the genius?

dirc · May 15, 2019

this is a common problem in ALL businesses around the world - a bean counter decides they can save a few pennies by cutting corners and convinces mgmt to do it, since they can use the extra $ to pay themselves bonuses... it never works out well

it's literally part of what ruined American car dominance in the 70s... https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/11276949-car-guys-vs-bean-counters

kniferbro · May 15, 2019

dano said:
Curious how an Internet forum seems to attempt a redesign and re-engineer a model, based on what, exactly?

Happens on the Spyderco forum all the time.

Alchemy1 · May 15, 2019

kniferbro said:
Happens on the Spyderco forum all the time.

I have seen this comment and I’ve tried to think it through and I can’t seem to understand the premise. Yes, if you want a pocket clip to be in a different place, real carbon fiber instead of “composite”, DLC coating, I totally get you. Those are cosmetic issues.

In this case, specifically, we’re talking about steel performances or lack thereof and the reasons why it is not, in Benchmade’s own words from their 3v chart, holding a “good” edge. What good is a knife if it’s not sharp? Is that redesigning or asking for a tool to serve its purpose?

That’s like me buying a Honda Civic being promised 36MPG and once I start driving it I’m only getting 25MPG. If I go back to the dealership and complain am I trying to overstep all of the engineers? I don’t think so. I think I’m asking to get what I thought I was buying.

Am I missing something?

dano · May 15, 2019

Maybe Benchmade wanted the hardness lower...Or it's just more steel-of-the-week nonsense and marketing ploys...

Mo2 · May 15, 2019

dano said:
Maybe Benchmade wanted the hardness lower...Or it's just more steel-of-the-week nonsense and marketing ploys...

Well, we don't know. It could be they just used the puukko heat treatment on a dramatically thinner blade and assumed it would work just as good.

Maybe it's flavor of the week.

Maybe it costs more to create a new profile for 3v folders and run the Puukkos separately through the ht process than the folders.

Maybe they didn't test them as well as they thought or had some random numskull test them and get poor feedback from them.

Maybe all the above. Maybe something not listed.

I know that @DeadboxHero tested the puukoo then reground it thinner and tested it again and it showed to be way to rolley Polley imho. He's got vids on his yt if you want to watch them in detail with his comments. I'll attempt to embed them later.

Alchemy1 · May 15, 2019

dano said:
Maybe Benchmade wanted the hardness lower...Or it's just more steel-of-the-week nonsense and marketing ploys...

Well, that’s all bad and kind of what I’m getting at. We’ve already established that such a low HRC may allow the knife to bend, but that’s at the cost of edge stability and wear resistance. If the marketing says one thing and the product does another that’s also bad.

Alchemy1 · May 15, 2019

Mo2 said:
Well, we don't know. It could be they just used the puukko heat treatment on a dramatically thinner blade and assumed it would work just as good.

Maybe it's flavor of the week.

Maybe it costs more to create a new profile for 3v and run the Puukkos separately through the ht process than the folders.

Maybe they didn't test them as well as they thought or had some random numskull test them and get poor feedback from them.

Maybe all the above. Maybe something not listed.

I know that @DeadboxHero tested the puukoo then reground it thinner and tested it again and it showed to be way to rolley Polley imho. He's got vids on his yt if you want to watch them in detail with his comments. I'll attempt to embed them later.

Yup, it’s all speculation and that’s why @Benchmade needs to chime in.

Twindog · May 15, 2019

ShannonSteelLabs said:
I personally think they should listen to what the customers want.

Do you need a knife A FOLDER that you can bend the blade 90 degrees? Nope. Use a fixed blade if you are going to be that hard on a knife. The handle would long break before the blade.

The 2 hardness ranges I use for 3V are 59/60 (59.5 best case) and 61 HRC with a low temper protocol By Peters.
The higher hardness rating will reduce toughness VERY slightly, but increase edge stability (support thinner edge) and boost corrosion resistance. 59/60 is used for maximum toughness. I know 58 is tougher but I've been using this for a long time. The results have been excellent.

The hardness rating on 55-58 is insane. That is way way too soft. You give up so much edge holding. Even if they ran the steel at 59 or 60 that would be more than tough enough as a folder. As long as HT is done correctly. Users would benefit from increased edge holding and less rolling.

Just my 2 cents.

I think your two cents is right on.

But in addition to being too soft, a range of 55-58 Rc is too wide. What is it -- 55, 56, 57 or 58? Or it could be 54.6 or 58.5. That span of hardness covers a big spread in performance. I wouldn't buy a knife with that large a hardness range. How would I know what I'm getting?

`br4dz- · May 15, 2019

Silent H said:
Here's the primary source, page 92 of Benchmade's 2019 catalog: https://www.benchmade.com/media/forms/2019_Benchmade_Catalog.pdf

Wtf at the major differences between 20cv and m390? What baboon made this chart? And 440c having better edge holding than damasteel and 3v hahaha

Mo2 · May 15, 2019

`br4dz- said:
Wtf at the major differences between 20cv and m390? What baboon made this chart? And 440c having better edge holding than damasteel and 3v hahaha

Yea the people who make those charts are not smart. It happens alot.
https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/09/03/ranking-the-steel-ranking-articles/

And from the sound of it, they don't know that m390, 20cv and 204p are the same composition. And it confuses there customers. Maybe they heat treated them differently, but why. Such drastic differences in those charts for being the same steel composition.

abbazaba · May 15, 2019

Where is my M4 Bugout?

I'll show myself out.

marrenmiller · May 15, 2019

Alchemy1 said:
Yup, it’s all speculation and that’s why @Benchmade needs to chime in.

Did you post anything on Benchmade's subforum?

Velitrius · May 15, 2019

Alchemy1 said:
That’s like me buying a Honda Civic being promised 36MPG and once I start driving it I’m only getting 25MPG. If I go back to the dealership and complain am I trying to overstep all of the engineers? I don’t think so. I think I’m asking to get what I thought I was buying.

Am I missing something?

Well, you are kind of missing something...

Benchmade promised you a certain hardness, and they delivered it. You just happen to be dissatisfied with it.

Be closer to say it would be like Honda said "Here is a Civic, it'll get 25MPG", and you stating that with a couple simple tweaks that the actual petroleum supplier recommends, they can get 36MPG. So why the hell aren't they giving us a 36MPG vehicle for our money?

I see where you are going with this, and it's a valid point. I am sincerely interested in why BM selected the hardness as well.

It wouldn't keep me from buying this piece. The hardness would be fine for my uses for such a knife.

Alchemy1 · May 15, 2019

Velitrius said:
Well, you are kind of missing something...

Benchmade promised you a certain hardness, and they delivered it. You just happen to be dissatisfied with it.

Be closer to say it would be like Honda said "Here is a Civic, it'll get 25MPG", and you stating that with a couple simple tweaks that the actual petroleum supplier recommends, they can get 36MPG. So why the hell aren't they giving us a 36MPG vehicle for our money?

I see where you are going with this, and it's a valid point. I am sincerely interested in why BM selected the hardness as well.

It wouldn't keep me from buying this piece. The hardness would be fine for my uses for such a knife.

I had no clue what the hardness was going to be when I bought the knife. I don’t own a catalog and I don’t look for a random chart to show the hardness for a specific product. I look at the product page. The product page sold me a tool for “professionals” without an HRC listing. I haven’t looked, but I’ve been told that BHQ’s listing had the range higher with it going into the low 60’s.

You hit the nail on the head though. We need @Benchmade to reply. How many tags is that just on BF?

Alchemy1 · May 15, 2019

marrenmiller said:
Did you post anything on Benchmade's subforum?

No, I’ll be fully transparent. I do not frequent BF outside of the traditional and sales sections. The reason for that was made clear from the guy with the “idiot” comment. I never intended to bring this over here. The OP created this dialog on BF.

I have emailed them, tagged them in numerous places, commented on their own IG posts, replied to BM’s posts that I’ve been tagged to, other people have DM’d them, I’ve seen screenshots of them acknowledging they know about this, tagged them here 4-5 times. I’m not hiding this in any way.

marrenmiller · May 15, 2019

Alchemy1 said:
No, I’ll be fully transparent. I do not frequent BF outside of the traditional and sales sections. The reason for that was made clear from the guy with the “idiot” comment. I never intended to bring this over here. The OP created this dialog on BF.

I have emailed them, tagged them in numerous places, commented on their own IG posts, replied to BM’s posts that I’ve been tagged to, other people have DM’d them, I’ve seen screenshots of them acknowledging they know about this, tagged them here 4-5 times. I’m not hiding this in any way.

That's fine, but if you actually want an answer you should post it on their forum rather than tag their moderator. They have a design engineer for Benchmade post frequently in their own forum and he would probably be the one who would answer for this.

Alchemy1 · May 15, 2019

marrenmiller said:
That's fine, but if you actually want an answer you should post it on their forum rather than tag their moderator. They have a design engineer for Benchmade post frequently in their own forum and he would probably be the one who would answer for this.

I literally have a screenshot of them saying they know and are about to respond. I’m the customer. I don’t have to chase them down. Especially when I know for 100% that they know.

mrfields · May 15, 2019

if you go to the benchmade company forum you can talk to the gentleman who designed both the bugout and the bailout. jason is the primary moderator over there. he may have more insight into why it was done the way it was.

Alchemy1 · May 15, 2019

mrfields said:
if you go to the benchmade company forum you can talk to the gentleman who designed both the bugout and the bailout. jason is the primary moderator over there. he may have more insight into why it was done the way it was.

This isn’t my post. Somehow I’ve become the focus of the post, but the OP was presenting all of the info in a condensed form that shows the Bailout/Benchmade’s 3v isn’t holding a “good” edge as Benchmade claims. I know they’re aware of my concerns. They, for whatever reason(s), have chosen not to reply. If a rep from the company responded that they know about my concerns and we’re going to reply, I’m sure they contacted the gentleman you speak of.

As I’ve also mentioned on IG, companies literally pay people to do 1 job, monitor social media. There is no way that BM doesn’t know about a 5 page thread on a forum they are members of. We really need to use logic and reason when thinking about these things.