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Benchmade 3v

Discussion in 'General Knife Discussion' started by Mo2, May 14, 2019.

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  1. Alchemy1

    Alchemy1

    914
    Dec 31, 2011
    It’s not going to be an issue because 3v is not going to chip. Even if it was, as you said, Benchmade is a major corporation. What percentage of the knives they make do the Bailouts account for? I’m sure it’s minuscule compared to all the knives they have out there that do get lifesharp service and all the other models they will put out this year that will also receive lifesharp service. Benchmade knows how to manage their bottom line. We see what they did with clips recently. They wouldn’t offer it, if it didn’t fit their bottom line. And 3v is not prone to chipping.
     
  2. Rasmus80

    Rasmus80

    454
    Sep 21, 2011
    Benchmade knowing how to manage their bottom line, is the reason for this menagerie.
    You are not their main target group. They make a knife that fits their target group. Maximizing their profit and satisfying the vast majority of customers.
    Only 0.0001'ish% of their customers care enough about knives, to ever visit this forum. Or to care about HRC.

    And to the Ferrari analogi; when buying a Benchmade, you are not buying the Ferrari of knives. More like a Dodge. But you know that.
    A Ferrari is also a lot easier to break than a Dodge.
     
    steff27, kniferbro and marrenmiller like this.
  3. Alchemy1

    Alchemy1

    914
    Dec 31, 2011
    I don’t think I’ve communicated my point clearly. Nobody wants to pay for something they are not getting. Dodge, Honda, Ferrari (because you mentioned connoisseurs and performance) , Swiss Army Knife, a drill, a pair of shoes, whatever analogy you want to go with.

    However, I want to make sure I understand you. You’re saying that it’s perfectly fine for a company to market a product a certain way and make certain claims, but not deliver on said claims because the majority of consumers will not know due to how they use a product? Again, I’m asking a general question and not necessarily a BM related question.
     
    mdrgn79 and Mo2 like this.
  4. skyhorse

    skyhorse Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 30, 2010
    Two ounce pocket knife with a blade thickness of 0.09" may have something to do with your perceived disappointment? I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for Benchmade to weigh in.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2019
    BITEME likes this.
  5. Alchemy1

    Alchemy1

    914
    Dec 31, 2011
    No, 3v is 3v in a chopper, a paring knife, a maul, whatever. So is every other steel. I’ve seen that comment too and that’s just not how steel works. Because a light handle is put on it and the blade is thinned doesn’t change the property of the steel. No more than ice isn’t just frozen water. The chemical composition didn’t change. Just the form it’s presented in.
     
    ShannonSteelLabs and mdrgn79 like this.
  6. skyhorse

    skyhorse Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 30, 2010
    If that's the case try testing a finely honed straight razor in 3v to see what results you get.
     
  7. Alchemy1

    Alchemy1

    914
    Dec 31, 2011
    Try that apples to apples with an AEB-L, s30v, etc and you will see that it holds true. The characteristics of the steel are the characteristics of the steel. This is why we need more conversation about steel because we’re all learning and a lot of info is being conflated.
     
    tomhosang, Eli Chaps and Mo2 like this.
  8. sXePhenomenal

    sXePhenomenal Gold Member Gold Member

    Mar 8, 2018
    You people are completely ridiculous attacking @Alchemy1
    Think with your brains for once sheesh. I understand when it comes to knives the majority have their head in the dirt and just regurgitate bs but the dude has literally stated everything you need to know and you still come up with something else dumb to say.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2019
  9. Mo2

    Mo2

    Apr 8, 2016

    He said 60hrc but don't think he knew its rated at 55-58hrc at the time of that vid. But otherwise it's on point. Also note he reground that puukko thinner... More comparable to the Bailout.
     
    Alchemy1 likes this.
  10. Rasmus80

    Rasmus80

    454
    Sep 21, 2011
    Comments like yours, could cause this thread to be closed.
    Take a deep breath.
     
  11. sXePhenomenal

    sXePhenomenal Gold Member Gold Member

    Mar 8, 2018
    It probably needs closed
     
  12. Alchemy1

    Alchemy1

    914
    Dec 31, 2011
    Great vid and shows the chipping thing is a nonissue.

    We sure about the BTE thickness on that? Looks Scandi ground and I know Shawn usually goes super thin BTE on his grinds. Like 10 thousandths or so. Where as standard production knives are usually around twice that.
     
  13. Rasmus80

    Rasmus80

    454
    Sep 21, 2011
    I guess we just don't agree on the matter that Benchmade has claimed this knife to be something it is not.
    They say it is tough. They say it has good edge retention.
    For their target group, those statements hold true.

    Again, I would genuinely like to know what number of ropecuts, in your test, would be satisfactory?
     
    steff27 likes this.
  14. sXePhenomenal

    sXePhenomenal Gold Member Gold Member

    Mar 8, 2018
    LOL ok yeah it’s me that could get it closed
     
  15. Mo2

    Mo2

    Apr 8, 2016
    Stop please. Your point is made. No need to argue it further. He does not have to agree with you. You are not automatically correct, it's just your opinion. Same for him too. But the fact still remains that alot of people expect better than this. Don't belittle that.

    And No, I'm not going to have this thread closed cause two folks are arguing on topic. No reason to.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2019
    mdrgn79 and Alchemy1 like this.
  16. Alchemy1

    Alchemy1

    914
    Dec 31, 2011
    This is not a Benchmade thing. I think that’s where this thread has gotten off topic and got people who have a Benchmade bias in an uproar. This is a tiny part of a conversation relating to what we know for a fact is going on with lots of different knives from lots of different manufacturers. They’re running soft steel and burning edges. This causes us to not get what we think we are paying for. Whether we’re going to use it to it’s extreme or not. We’re paying a premium for upgraded steel and getting the performance of a much lower level steel. That’s the reason we have knives tested. That’s the reason we cut test. That’s the reason we discuss steels and keep charts.

    All abrasives affect steel differently. There is no answer to the spirit of your question. What is “good” 3v. We’re also not just talking about wear resistance. Which is another reason we need to have steel discussions because we’re all learning and different things test different attributes. Different words relate to different steel characteristics. For instance, the word “tough” does not always equate to edge stability. That can mean that you can bend the blade to 90 degrees.

    If you want to see a chart, Cedric and Ada has all the data you need on all types of steels cutting rope. You’ll see that across the board, steel types and companies, sometimes were getting what we pay for and sometimes we’re getting a steaming pile.
     
    mdrgn79 and sXePhenomenal like this.
  17. Alchemy1

    Alchemy1

    914
    Dec 31, 2011
    Conversation is necessary for all of us to grow in our steel knowledge. We all have to be open to the info and not just one source of info. There is a lot of info out there. The goal is to discuss that info and not only become wiser about steel, but make sure we are getting what we’re paying for. No need to spend $40-$50 extra dollars on a special steel if it’s not going to preform any differently than the base model knife. Opinion, but I think most would agree. They don’t want to throw money away for a pretty stamp on a blade.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2019
    mdrgn79, Eli Chaps and Mo2 like this.
  18. Eli Chaps

    Eli Chaps Basic Member Basic Member

    Apr 20, 2018
    I've watched a lot of @Alchemy1 's videos and I believe that in general he is trying to help the broader knife community through reviews, testing, etc. This particular subject is a tiny drop compared to his overall efforts. Whether an individual agrees with him on this or any other thing, it doesn't negate the fact that he is an active and contributing member of the knife community and I think that deserves respect.

    For me, this issue has a whole lot less to do with Benchmade or (insert company name here) as it does the aforementioned knife "community". Each one of as individuals can have different views and opinions and that's cool but I believe that the bulk of the knife-buying community, at least those who will be buying knives above $25, have very altered ideas of what makes a good knife than what, say I do. I know a lot of guys walking around my factory with Benchmades and Spydercos in their pockets and they can tell you how much they cost, how nice they snap open, what a great company the knife came from, the warranty info, and that the steel is awesome. But ask them what steel it is, and the overwhelming majority have to open the knife and read it off the blade. And if you press them on why it's such a great steel, it is extremely rare to get a coherent answer. But they read it or watched it on YouTube and the marketing hype all said it was awesome. And they'll defend their chosen company with really solid arguments such as, "Well, they've been making knives for decades and are one of the most popular brands out there so I think I'll trust them over you."

    And geometry? That discussion will quickly go no where.

    There's a growing number of folks who are quite publicly challenging the current status quo and demonstrating that it takes more than just letters and numbers in a steel's nomenclature to really derive the benefits of the steel. I love what @DeadboxHero is doing and even though these days I've largely abandoned the modern folding line, I still watch his work with great interest. Well, that and his awesome beard.

    He uses production folders, to demonstrate a larger point; that there's way more to this than a steel's name and that the user should seriously evaluate what a knife is intended for and truly understand how it should be used and then decide on the materials and designs. In other words, he's putting this back on the knife community and trying to get people to make smart, informed, choices and this will in turn steer the market.

    Why wouldn't a company put out stuff like this when consumers are lining up to buy it? Me? I just quit getting in line.

    Now, me personally? I believe that these "extreme" or perhaps maybe steels that were invented as application-specific products, in a folding pocket knife are totally unnecessary. I think if you're buying a production folder in these steels, especially given some of the blade designs, you're likely either ignorant or you just think it's awesome. I have no issue with the latter and more power to you! But I think it is a very select few who actually need such performance from a pocket knife and those who do, have probably educated themselves on who has the best stuff in the best package for their needs. Cuz, ya know, they actually need it so they aren't loyal to anything but satisfying those needs.

    In the end, it's all just education or at least information. And there's nothing bad about that. Healthy debates that help the community make informed decisions should be what it is all about. I know in my fifty years, my opinions and thoughts on many, many subjects have changed, knives being no exception.

    There's room in the sandbox for everyone to play, just so long as everyone understands why they're in the sandbox and is cool with it.

    Reckon none of that really helps but I feel better. :)
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2019
  19. J.Mattson

    J.Mattson

    Sep 10, 2007
    I may have missed it, but I'm not sure what some folks are hoping for in a Benchmade response. Design choices? Philosophy?

    As I understand it the steel tested within their desired spec, even though the coating, I'm not seeing any conspiracy.

    I read a few automotive analogies comparing the hrc of the steel to the mpg of a car. I wonder if it would be more appropriate to compare hrc, at least in this case, to rpms. They have an engine capable of good performance at 7,000 rpm but in the interest of longevity limited it to 5,000.

    I'm not the customer Benchmade was looking for with this knife but I can certainly understand the appeal of designing a knife that the average person will find easy to carry, durable, and easy to sharpen. It's the reason why most of the knives I've given or recommended to non-knife guys have been spyderco salt 1s.
     
    steff27 and Alchemy1 like this.
  20. Eli Chaps

    Eli Chaps Basic Member Basic Member

    Apr 20, 2018
    @Alchemy1 basically summed up my thoughts much more succinctly than I did, while I was typing my post. :D
     
    Mo2 and Alchemy1 like this.
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