Benchtop mills, capabilities and tooling

M

Mark van Elteren

Joined
Jan 5, 2020
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69
Hello! I know there are some very skilled machinists on this forum, and I could use some advice on choosing a mill. I have started making more folders (linerlocks), and would love to move into framelocks, bearings, milled handles and the like. I also build grinders, so a mill would make slotting faster and drilling more accurate. Of course, it would also see some use for building random fixtures, jigs and non-knife making projects.

I have never used a milling machine, but I understand the basics in theory, so I have a rough idea of what I am looking for. I would love to buy a small (750kg or less, my shop is 20sqm, so space is a premium), used knee mill, but those almost never come up for sale in my area (Slovenia, Europe). My next option is a benchtop mill - not quite mini, in the area of 150-200kg. I have set myself a pretty tight budget - 3000€, which will have to include tooling and accessories. Would a benchtop mill of this size be substantial enough for making folders and other relatively small projects? I am planning on milling titanium and aluminium, with the occasional steel part.

I also have some more specific questions:
- If I can find a knee mill, how important would a quill be? I know it reduces the rigidity somewhat, but I am worried about breaking small drills with moving the entire knee
- RPM. Most smaller mills go to around 3000rpm, but some top out around 1500rpm. My drill press never leaves the lowest gear (~600rpm), but I still wonder If the extra speed could be useful
- HSS/carbide. I will definitely be using HSS to learn with, but I am not so sure about milling titanium. What do you guys use? 2 flute or 4 flute?
- DRO. I am set on a digital quill/Z-axis for milling bearing pockets, but I am also considering a 3 axis DRO. That way backlash is not really an isue, and it should make life easier with general positioning. Any feedback here is welcome
- Taper. I know MT has a tendency to bind and get stuck more, but ISO tooling is more expensive, and any of my existing MT tooling would have to be used with an adapter. R8 is not popular around here, which is strange, but it makes the choice easier.

Last but not least, I have compiled a list of tooling and accessories I can fit into my budget (if I find a good deal on the mill). This is all relatively cheap, import stuff. I am not expecting extreme accuracy or heirloom quality, but usable. Please point out anything I missed.
- measuring: surface plate, magnetic indicator stand, dial indicator, dial test indicator, micrometer stand (I have a 0-25mm and will add larger ones when needed), depth gauge (hopefully depth micrometer, If I can find one), precision square, decent digital or dial callipers
- workholding and setup: clamp set, angle plate, V-blocks, a set of paralells, mill vise, edge finder, ER32 collet set with arbor, ER collet blocks (square and hex), digital angle gauge, rotary table (I wil buy the dividing plate set later, if/when I need it)
- cutters: centre drills, a selection of HSS end mills, 2 flute and mostly 4 flute, some ball-nose end mills and chamfering bits. I have a selection of drills and saws for cutting lock bars on folders

Also, here is a link to the benchtop mill I like most for now - https://metal-kovis.hr/shop/cijena/busilica-glodalica-zx32g-farrox I can pick it up locally, the price is decent and it has quite a bit of Z travel for the size. I would be adding a 3 axis DRO.

I am sorry about the long post, thanks for reading and for any advice you might have!
 
I don’t see how you can drill without a quill and how you can do folders without drilling...? so you need a quill

as someone who has never used a milling machine you seem to have a lot of knowledge about them and are asking the right questions... I suspect you know the answers to most of these

Don’t overthink this as your needs and desires will change over time and you will figure all this out along the way

personally I think a surface grinder is very important for doing folder work
 
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I use a small mini mill for all my stuff so it’s more than possible. Even starting to do integrals with it. I have done bearing pockets etc on my mill but now I do them with carbide counterbores on my drill press. Just way way faster for me.

I recommend using a dialed in drill press for drilling operations, rather than the mill. With a surface grinder and a drill press I get perpendicular holes with carbide reamers and counter bores. If I had to give up one before the other I could do them all on my 2 drill presses and not even use the mill (not including integrals) and do so faster. Stop pin tracks, pocket clips, lockbar cutouts and reliefs are what I use the mill for 98% of the time.
 
HSC /// said:
I don’t see how you can drill without a quill and how you can do folders without drilling...? so you need a quill

as someone who has never used a milling machine you seem to have a lot of knowledge about them and are asking the right questions... I suspect you know the answers to most of these

Don’t overthink this as your needs and desires will change over time and you will figure all this out along the way

personally I think a surface grinder is very important for doing folder work
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Many larger mills only have z travel with the table, which means raising it for drilling operations. I know this works fine for larger drills, but I am somewhat worried about breaking small drills, because I will lose some of the feel and feedback you get when drilling with a quill.

I am planning on a surface grinding attachment as one of my first mill projects. I know it it somewhat limited when it comes to precision, but I think I can make it work, given that I now work without either. Sadly, a proper surface grinder would take up too much space.

Thank you for your advice!
 
Daniel Carraher said:
I use a small mini mill for all my stuff so it’s more than possible. Even starting to do integrals with it. I have done bearing pockets etc on my mill but now I do them with carbide counterbores on my drill press. Just way way faster for me.

I recommend using a dialed in drill press for drilling operations, rather than the mill. With a surface grinder and a drill press I get perpendicular holes with carbide reamers and counter bores. If I had to give up one before the other I could do them all on my 2 drill presses and not even use the mill (not including integrals) and do so faster. Stop pin tracks, pocket clips, lockbar cutouts and reliefs are what I use the mill for 98% of the time.
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I am also planning on doing most of the drilling on a drill press. I make folders with metric hardware, and have not ben able to find suitable counterbores. Still, my biggest problem is depth - which I am hoping to easily control on a mill.
 
I use my drill press a lot and have used it for folders in the early days. I think you know a Mill is significantly more rigid and accurate for drilling and reaming.

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PM is not an option, as I have never seen them for sale in the EU. It does look like a nice mill though :)

The mill I linked above is quite convenient for me, because I would be picking it up from the dealer, so I can see and feel the quality before putting down the cash. I could not find any other machines from Farrox online to read reviews and find out more, but judging by the pics and specifications, it seems to be a mid-range import mill, as far as quality goes.
 
i linked more so for the size as in my shop it woudl be kind of in the middle of whata i have been using. i have to bet that the 250-500lb range bench mill is made by some one and with any of these "hobby" class mills some cleanup and tuning are to be expected
edit to add just looked at the link you posted and that mill looks good and it looks to have ER set up with it ? bout the only thing i coudl think woudl be nice woudl be a bit more top end RPM for the smaller cutters
 
butcher_block said:
i linked more so for the size as in my shop it woudl be kind of in the middle of whata i have been using. i have to bet that the 250-500lb range bench mill is made by some one and with any of these "hobby" class mills some cleanup and tuning are to be expected
edit to add just looked at the link you posted and that mill looks good and it looks to have ER set up with it ? bout the only thing i coudl think woudl be nice woudl be a bit more top end RPM for the smaller cutters
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I figured some tinkering will be required to make it work as well as possible, and that is not a problem. I would probably take it apart anyway, just to see how everything works, and hopefully be able to troubleshoot later.

As far as I can tell the ER collet set is an option, I am planning on buying a set anyway, most likely ER32. The RPM has me slightly worried as well, but I guess I will see. I would prefer to use HSS over carbide, so it should be somewhat less of an issue.
 
sounds like you are ready for that mill and what to deal with down the road the speed thing might be as simmple as a pully change if you find you want more speed. i know when i updated my mini mill to belt drive it bumped the RPM a hair
 
butcher_block said:
sounds like you are ready for that mill and what to deal with down the road the speed thing might be as simmple as a pully change if you find you want more speed. i know when i updated my mini mill to belt drive it bumped the RPM a hair
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Thanks for the help, I will be sure to post some pics when I get it
 
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