Best Corrosion Resistance for Carbon Steel

Didgeridude

Didgeridude

Joined
Aug 3, 2011
Messages
46
Hey Guys,

I have checked past threads and google and I can't seem to find this specific question, or the answer so such. My sister is about to get married and I am making a kitchen knife for her and a sailing or riggers knife for my soon to be brother in law (due to the fact that he sails) I had some stainless that I had it made out of, but I then proceeded to destroy it during the HT (yay me) I am now down to the wire with no time left to order another piece of stainless. So, on to my question. What is the best way to make 1084 as corrosion resistant as it can be. Cold Blueing, leave the forge scale on, FC etching? I just don't know. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Thank you guys.
 
Why not do a different wedding gift and make the stainless knives christmas gifts?

Btw, my main kitchen knife was my grandfathers and is carbon steel with a nice healthy patina. Nothing wrong with that.
 
Randy3000 said:
Why not do a different wedding gift and make the stainless knives christmas gifts?

Btw, my main kitchen knife was my grandfathers and is carbon steel with a nice healthy patina. Nothing wrong with that.
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Yeah its looking like I might have to do that. The kitchen knife is 1095 and I know it will be well taken care of. The rigging knife will be used around salt water and wont be able to be wiped off right away after each use. I just really wanted to present them as a set. Do you know of any way to mitigate the corrosion of carbon steel?
 
As the kitchen knife tell her to keep it dry and just let it form a patina.
For the sailing knife I'd have him do the same or keep it oiled. I highly recommend 3 in 1 oil
 
I’d recommend Z-FiNiT for the sailing knife, if you hold off. Nitrogen steels have exceptional corrosion resistance.

My experience is that the natural patina will help prevent rust. I’ve never used any product or process that substantially helps prevent rust, if the blade is left wet, or put in a wet sheath. The only other suggestion is a mustard patina. At least that is supposed to look blotchy.
 
The higher the finish on carbon steel creates fewer pits and crevices for oxidizing materials to get a foot hold. Bring the surface as close to mirror finish as possible....Think 200 -300 year old Katanas with mirror finish that have stood the test of time in all environments. However if you choose a lesser finish suggest seasoning the blade by cutting raw meat the blood produces natural patina as does the juice of sliced apples.
 
You will read threads and online articles saying that X steel and Y steel will resist rust better, or that Z steel will rust while you look at it. The truth is that ALL carbon steel will rust if exposed to moisture and oxygen. Some has a bit more chromium or other alloying that others, but the quantity is insufficient to make much of any difference. It takes over 10% chromium to start showing a resistance to rust, and 12% to be called stainless. D-2 is the only non-stainless steel knife steel I would call rust resistant .
Stainless steel or nitrogen steel will resist corrosion and rust quite well.

If it is a carbon steel … it will rust. No normal surface treatment can prevent that. Some retard it a bit. A good patina from years of use, or a forced patina with any of a variety of acidic things, Parkerizing, bluing, etc. will slow it down.
Abrasion will rub/wear away surface patina, so on a knife like a rigging knife patina alone would not offer much protection.

As pointed out, keeping a carbon steel blade clean and dry is the best way to retard rust. Oiling the blade further keeps moisture from the surface during storage and non-use periods. The oil will rub off in use ( or get wiped off before use) and the blade should be cleaned, dried, and oiled after each use.

Just a side note to those who don't know - Stainless knife steels and D-2 will rust easily before HT. It is the changes that HT brings about that makes them stainless.
 
Thank you everyone for your awesome advice. I think what I am going to do is make two kitchen knives, one for him and one for her, so that i have something to give them both for the wedding, but will have some stainless or nitrogen steel on order for the riggers knife in the near future. This is due to the fact that while I am confident that he will take care of a knife, I know that on a boat things can come up quickly and I want him to not have to think about knife care in the moment, or have to have it in the back of his mind while needing to focus on other things. That being said he will get his riggers knife, one that will take the beating of the high seas. And also I had never heard of nitrogen steel and it sounds awesome and I want to try and work with it! I will also post pictures once I have the kitchen knives done, as I want to keep contributing to this community as well as get information.
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
You will read threads and online articles saying that X steel and Y steel will resist rust better, or that Z steel will rust while you look at it. The truth is that ALL carbon steel will rust if exposed to moisture and oxygen. Some has a bit more chromium or other alloying that others, but the quantity is insufficient to make much of any difference. It takes over 10% chromium to start showing a resistance to rust, and 12% to be called stainless. D-2 is the only non-stainless steel knife steel I would call rust resistant .
Stainless steel or nitrogen steel will resist corrosion and rust quite well.

If it is a carbon steel … it will rust. No normal surface treatment can prevent that. Some retard it a bit. A good patina from years of use, or a forced patina with any of a variety of acidic things, Parkerizing, bluing, etc. will slow it down.
Abrasion will rub/wear away surface patina, so on a knife like a rigging knife patina alone would not offer much protection.

As pointed out, keeping a carbon steel blade clean and dry is the best way to retard rust. Oiling the blade further keeps moisture from the surface during storage and non-use periods. The oil will rub off in use ( or get wiped off before use) and the blade should be cleaned, dried, and oiled after each use.

Just a side note to those who don't know - Stainless knife steels and D-2 will rust easily before HT. It is the changes that HT brings about that makes them stainless.
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I agree with almost everything you said, but cru-wear and 3v have more free chromium than D2. This isn’t well known though. People using cru-wear report very good stain resistance for a carbon steel, and I have a few used for over a year in the kitchen with basically no patina. A coring knife did turn light grey after 100lbs of tomatoes. Very acidic environment, to say the least.

upload_2018-10-30_14-26-7.jpeg

upload_2018-10-30_14-26-33.jpeg

https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/06/11/how-much-more-chromium-does-d2-need-to-be-stainless/
 
Thanks Willie, you are correct that many folks don't realize that free chromium and chromium percentage aren't the same.
I didn't go into the high alloy steels, as I consider them separate from basic carbon steels.
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
Thanks Willie, you are correct that many folks don't realize that free chromium and chromium percentage aren't the same.
I didn't go into the high alloy steels, as I consider them separate from basic carbon steels.
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No worries, I’ve been confronted on this a few times on Facebook. I show those images. Reality is these steels require sophisticated heat treatments like stainless anyway. There aren’t any corrosion resistant steels in the “forge heat treat” category.
 
I was not able to get stainless in time and I don't think anything i could do to a HC blade would make it resistant to salt water corrosion. So I made a different knife and will tackle the riggers knife at a later date. Here is the knife I chose to make instead. Antler Knife.jpg Kitchen Knife.jpg This is the kitchen knife I made for my sister. The lighter spacer is some laminated cardstock that my sister used for her wedding invitations. I wanted to give it that personal touch. I don't like that the card stock has striations running through it that i could not sand out.
 
Didgeridude said:
I was not able to get stainless in time and I don't think anything i could do to a HC blade would make it resistant to salt water corrosion. So I made a different knife and will tackle the riggers knife at a later date. Here is the knife I chose to make instead. View attachment 1020589 View attachment 1020590 This is the kitchen knife I made for my sister. The lighter spacer is some laminated cardstock that my sister used for her wedding invitations. I wanted to give it that personal touch. I don't like that the card stock has striations running through it that i could not sand out.
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Those look good. Great gift!

Best corrosion resistance is in the nitrogen steels. Chuck at AKS has both z-FiNiT, and vanax. Vanax is more wear resistant, z-FiNiT has great toughness and fine edge stability.
 
Carbon steel shouldn't be a problem for a rigging knife.... "IF" you provide a leather sheath that is really soaked on the inside in oil to store the knife. Have him keep the sheath oiled inside to the point of just shy of soaking thru and leaving oil on clothing.

I lived aboard and sailed for over 25 yrs on a 40 ft sailboat and that's how I did my rigging knives. Didn't have much problem with rust.

Ken H>
 
Ken H> said:
Carbon steel shouldn't be a problem for a rigging knife.... "IF" you provide a leather sheath that is really soaked on the inside in oil to store the knife. Have him keep the sheath oiled inside to the point of just shy of soaking thru and leaving oil on clothing.

I lived aboard and sailed for over 25 yrs on a 40 ft sailboat and that's how I did my rigging knives. Didn't have much problem with rust.

Ken H>
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What oil do you use for that?
 
most anything other than burnt motor oil {g}.... Well, for leather I like neatsfoot (or Mink) oil as a good leather conditioner. Understand, when I say I lived aboard for over 25 yrs I never aspired to a round the world cruise. I spent my time cruising in the Caribbean and central America areas, still plenty of salt water there.
 
Carbon steels can be treated to prevent rust. All the treatments are surface treatments.
Nickel plating is simple and wears pretty well.
Industrial hard chrome works very well and is tough.
Nitriding is tougher than both of the former.
Edges will be exposed, but the rest of the blades will be protected.
Any of these treatments are more durable than Cera Kote paint.
 
Didgeridude said:
This is the kitchen knife I made for my sister. The lighter spacer is some laminated cardstock that my sister used for her wedding invitations. I wanted to give it that personal touch. I don't like that the card stock has striations running through it that i could not sand out.
Click to expand...
I quite like the lines, they add some detail. Nice knife, and that's a cool idea to personalise it.
 
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