Best length and shape of blade for self defense?

C

Cameron Reddy

Joined
May 26, 2000
Messages
30
Assume that you must visit a very nasty area and you cannot carry a gun. What is your knife of choice and why?

Please be as specific as you can. I'm looking for people who have opinions on details, details, details. Such as:

Blade length of 4 inches, 6 inches, 9 inches? And why?

Blade thickness? Full length tapered or full thickness tang? And why?

Double edge? Clip Point? Persian? And why?

Carbon steel differentially tempered? D2? And why?

Finger groves in the handle? Blade heavy, handle heavy, or balanced on the forefinger? And why?

Sub-hilt? Flat handle? Stag handle? And why?

Etc.

I'm sure many of you have other features that you consider important. Tell me!!

Thanks in advance for your ideas. They will likely go into several scenes of my next novel.

For the person with the best ideas, I'll even try to work your name into my story, if you like.

Cameron Reddy www.cameronreddy.com
 
Cameron,

I prefer to carry blades by makers such as Al Polkowski, Pat Crawford (Kasper Designs), JSP, Mad Dog, RJ Martin & Bob Dozier. Most of the blades I carry are double edged & I have QUITE a stable to choose from. Based on your synopsis I would carry my Bob Dozier/Jim Keating designed second generation CROSSADA. It is 17" OAL, double edged 12" blade with spanish notch, devils guards & micarta handles (full tang). It is made from 1/4" stock of A2 steel, is VERY POINTY, SHARP as HELL & FAST in the hand. I would wear it on my back via my bladerigger Spinal Backup 3 harness & my custom kydex v-stat modified sheath. FAST & SAFE deployment & you are GUARANTEED to give the bad guy the *HERSHEY SQUIRTS*!!! ^_^

If you would like to see a picture of this INCREDIBLE knife look here: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=155974&a=1307491

8th row, the 2 pics in the middle. Matt made me the back sheath & it is FLAWLESS!

Why would I choose this particular knife? Because It is an INCREDIBLE design that WORKS!!! SHEER EVIL! Heh,Heh,Heh.
wink.gif


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Attila
 
Attila,

Great Post! What a knife!

Excuse my ignorance, but what exactly is the purpose of the Spanish notch?

Are you a big guy? I'd have guessed that a knife that large and heavy would be a bit slow (at least I'd have a hard time with it).

Thanks much.

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Cameron Reddy
 
Ok,
I like a 3-4inch blade with a thickness of
1/8, full tang with a tanto or drop point blade. The steels would be either ATS-34,
D2, or M2. Balance on the fore finger with
a flat handle with G-10, micarta or cord
wrap handle!
1)That blade length due to the fact that
if it was used in a S.D. situation in a court
of law it would not look as menacing as
would a blade of 5-6 inches. Besides that's
all you really need anyways. IMHO.
2)The thickness because it is light and is
not bulky when concealed.
3)I prefer full tang because i feel that it
is stronger.
4)Tanto point because it is a great slashing
and piercing blade. Drop point also for it's
slashing and piercing ability.
5)The steels because of there strenghts and
edge holding. I could name a dozen more
steels with the same characteristics but i
prefer thoses.
6)Balance on the forefinger because i just
like it like that.
7)A Flat handle,really because it is comfortable.
8)Handle material G-10, micarta, or cord wrap
because of the secure grip it provides. plus they could take a beating.

------------------
"ALWAYS WATCH YOUR SIX"

[This message has been edited by jacko (edited 06-02-2000).]
 
Cameron,

scouter27 hit it right on the head! The design of the CROSSADA makes binding & breaking an opponent's blade a REAL possibility! The SWEET thing is that when you parry, you are almost GUARANTEED a bind or catch & then you can BACKCUT!!! VERY, VERY WICKED!

I'm not a big guy, but this blade is VERY FAST in my hands... it pretty much has a will of it's own! It's got PHENOMENAL balance while retaining a bit of heft, but not enough to slow it in the least. All in all a STOMPING design! To quote Mr. Keating: "Most fighting knives are made to kill man, the CROSSADA is made to kill the WEAPON & THE MAN"!
wink.gif


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Attila
 
Cameron,

I forgot to mention: The CROSSADA also comes with S7 steel screw in quillions. I put them in while at home & want the knife accessible. I just place the blade down & with the way it rests, u just scoop it up...
wink.gif


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Attila
 
Cameron;
Why can your character not carry a gun? If it is because of availibility the knife carry answer will be different than if for legal reasons.
1) In most jurisdictions you can get in almost as much trouble carrying a combat blade as for carrying a gun.
2) A big knife is about as much to carry as a gun. You could carry a suppressed Kahr K-9 in the same space as a 7-8" bladed knife.
3) Is this knife something that your character is going to want to hang on to for some reason? Or will it be disposable? Are you looking for something exotic? How will the knife be used? As a backup weapon? Primary offensive weapon(sentry removal)?
Answer these questions and I will give you a good answer.


------------------
The thorn stands to defend the Rose, yet it is peaceful and does not seek conflict
 
Fudo,

Excellent questions!!!

I'm off to my mother's birthday party, but I will answer your questions ASAP.

Thanks for the careful thought.

This really is a great forum!

------------------
Cameron Reddy
 
More stuff to throw into the equation.

What is your "fighting style," physical size, strength, agility level, and level of training? How well concealed do you want the knife to be?
 
My first choice would be a short sword like Jerry Hossom's Espada Lite:

img32.jpg


To big?

I'm with Attila. The Crossada, or a big fighting bowie would be the knife I would carry in place of a firearm. Double-edged, linear, perfect for cut and thrust style fighting, plus possessing enough blade mass to do devestating damage. Double ground from either .25" or 3/16" stock, balance right at the guard for quickness, no finger grooves or sub-hilt to limit grip flexibility or transitions, full tang for strength, reliability, and balance. Handle should preferably be flat on the sides but have a contoured profile to lock the knife into the hand. I like Micarta for grip on a working knife. Steel is no big deal, could be A-2, D-2, simple carbon steel, Damascus, CPM3V, 5160, doesn't matter, as long as it is heat treated for the perfect balance of edge holding and toughness. If I wanted to impress my readers it would be clay hardened Japanese Damascus, space-tech CPM3V with a hint of differential temper, or triple quenched 5160 with multiple temper lines.

nk_crss.jpg


If you want to go smaller still, a Mad Dog Voodoo Queen or a Black Cloud Sharktooth in the 7" range would be my choices, spearpoints, double edges, all above still true.

travis_voodooqueen.jpg
 
I'm really, really impressed with my Perrin/Emerson Griffe. You wouldn't believe the way that blade tears up soft targets. The fact that it is so short, and attached securely to my hand seems to multiply the force I can apply with it. I would carry it, in an urban situation, with the kydex sheath safety-pinned to the bottom of my pocket. It's covert, and easily accesible. E-mail if you have any more questions on this unique and effective little knife.
 
For carry purposes a five inch fixed blade is my favorite. Big enough for real work but still easy to conceal and carry. Im 5'9" and about 195lbs. Double edge is a plus for a knife that is relegated to fighter only status because it just gives you an extra tool. I like belly on the blade to make slashing more efective and I like the balance at the index finger for rapid and smooth grip changes. Steel selection for a weapon is less important as you will use it once and then can resharpen or toss. I will post a picture of my newly aquired RJ Martin quest because if I were writing a novel this knife would be what I would include only because it is Very well thought out and purpose built. But more importantly it is sexy as hell.

Now for some ugly reality. Damn reality sucks. Most of the features I mentioned, though I look for them and purchase them, are not really very useful in a street attack. They can be useful against multiple assailants but wont give you that much edge. I do have some experience in this. I grew up in a NYC inner city housing project and have lost two family members and a couple of childhood freinds to stabbing deaths. Truth is most defensive and offensive knife play if not being done by two martial artists is more about closeing the distance and poking alot. No one is ever going to switch from foward grip to reverse in an actual conflict. Slashing happens infrequently. Maybe with some bar room brawlers who really just want to mess each other up but dont really want to kill anyone. Again not the situation you proposed. In your situation a sharp screwdriver would work great! Your charecter wanders down the block and senses danger. He clutches the handle of his screwdriver, or knife of choice, and when the bad guy says Gimme yo... your guy rolls around and pokes the sh.. out of him. I have only witnessed the dancing around with knives stuff amoungst people who really dont want to kill one another. Everytime I witnessed someone who had made up there mind either as defense or offense that they were taking someone out it was always hammer grip and go. Oh and I prefer a knife to a gun in defensive situations but that is the subject of another thread.

Disclaimer
My thoughts and experiences are just that.
ALex
 
I've read that the purpose of the spanish notch is to provide a means of controlling the blade, with the thunbnail,when used edge up. The spanish thought it was poor form to kill your opponent, the goal was to mark his face with a scar.
 
Hmmm, controlling the blade with a thumbnail? The Spanish should know better than to put a hand on the blade during a fight. What a great way to get your hand f**ked up.
 
Cameron,
Interesting topic. I just had a pair of Tanto Blade knives made for specifically that purpose....... Not that I find myself in those situations often, I just wanted a pair of knives built to my specs to practice with and I guess if the need ever arose I would be more than equipped. Specs:
Traditional Tanto Blade shape for slashing (Not the Americanized Tanto with the angled tip). No serrations, ATS34 Steel, light mirror polished.
10.5" OAL
5.5" Blade
Nickel Silver Bolster to Blade side only so you can place your thumb along spine to direct your blade and help 'draw' through your target. Also had it made large enough to promote a punch attack and to trap another blade.
G10 handles with alternating 'X' and 'Line' patterns to promote grip.
Nickel Silver Skull Crusher on the end of the blade for the obvious reasons as well as promoting attacks to pressure points which are especially useful in disarming and other non-lethal blows.
Kydex Sheaths complete the array which are modified to be able to change from horizontal to vertical carry which allows one to be carried on the side readily visible while the other is in the small of the back. OR horizontal front and back both concealed allowing for quick double draw.

Chuck Gedraitis did the blades and I will post a pic if I can figure out how.

Shawn

------------------
I know I can't hold the hate inside my mind
'Cause what consumes your thoughts controls your life
So I'll just ask a question
What if?

What if your words could be judged like a crime?
-CREED ('What if')
 
Cameron,
Can you give us any more detail on the situation/setting like is it in the future, past, are guns available but just not to this character? Boriqua makes some great points about modern knife attacks but the situation may be drastically changed were it in the future and all there were for weapons was knives in which case nearly all people would have some entry level knowledge about knife fighting...... In that case, instead of two similar blades, the person would probably be likely to use two different blades entirely and have the ambidextrous knowledge to use each to his advantage. Also, they might use a buckler like a small shield and if it were mine I would have the edges sharpened except for the part that was nearest the back of my arm where I would cover with leather. Slash, stab, block, parry, slice with the buckler would be a cool scenario. Just throwing out ideas.
Shawn
 
Thanks everyone for your comments and questions. Many of you are really thinking hard about this and I really appreciate it.

Attila,

Can you explain “The CROSSADA also comes with S7 steel screw in quillions”?

Burke,

I will email you as you have requested.

Fudo,

Why can your character not carry a gun? If it is because of availability the knife carry answer will be different than if for legal reasons. Assume he is law abiding and has been denied a CCW. However, his personality is to seek always to do the right thing, and any violation of a knife law is a result of the ambiguity of the law (i.e. it’s illegal to carry a “dangerous weapon” but even a pen falls into that category).
1) In most jurisdictions you can get in almost as much trouble carrying a combat blade as for carrying a gun. Assume he can legally conceal the blade if it is not double edged, but if it is double edged, he must carry it openly (in a sheath that is visible).
2) A big knife is about as much to carry as a gun. You could carry a suppressed Kahr K-9 in the same space as a 7-8" bladed knife. True enough. In other jurisdictions I may have him carry a handgun.
3) Is this knife something that your character is going to want to hang on to for some reason? Or will it be disposable? Well, he can ditch it, but if it is expensive or custom he will have the normal aversion to doing so. Are you looking for something exotic? Possibly. I like the idea of a clay -hardened edge. How will the knife be used? As a backup weapon? Primary offensive weapon(sentry removal)? Primary defensive weapon. No sentry removal as I don’t anticipate doing a war type story. I don’t like writing intentional, unprovoked killings. Not many people die in my stories, but when they do, it’s a big scene and usually those who die have really asked for it. Think in terms of your signature quote, which I like very much!

the4th

What is your "fighting style," physical size, strength, agility level, and level of training? How well concealed do you want the knife to be?
Let’s say our hero has studied Col. Applegate’s WWII style and has taken a KNI-COM class from Bob Kasper (which is very simple, nothing fancy, down-to-earth defense/offense). Our hero is strong, agile, has a medium build, and is just under 6 feet tall. The knife is either concealed, if not double edged, or visible, in a sheath or kydex, if double edged. Length is not an issue from a legal standpoint.

Steve Harvey

My first choice would be a short sword like Jerry Hossom's Espada Lite.
Steve. That is the “Lite” version??? Wow! Can you give me some details? What is the full sized beast? And thanks for the great pictures!!

Emanym Ton

Can you give us any more detail on the situation/setting like is it in the future, past, are guns available but just not to this character?
It’s a current-day thriller. Set in the United States with pretty much our current legal system. Gun confiscation is likely to be a hotly debated topic in the story. Thus, my discussion of knives, and weapons in general, will be very specific, detailed, accurate, and hopefully realistic in terms of likely use.
Boriqua makes some great points about modern knife attacks but the situation may be drastically changed were it in the future
You’ve got that right. And frankly, political change and social awareness/acceptance are primary reasons why I write.
and all there were for weapons was knives in which case nearly all people would have some entry level knowledge about knife fighting
That’s possible, but let’s assume it is not the case.
...... In that case, instead of two similar blades, the person would probably be likely to use two different blades entirely and have the ambidextrous knowledge to use each to his advantage. Also, they might use a buckler like a small shield and if it were mine I would have the edges sharpened except for the part that was nearest the back of my arm where I would cover with leather. Slash, stab, block, parry, slice with the buckler would be a cool scenario. Just throwing out ideas.
And good ones, too. Let’s say it’s not that sophisticated in terms of preparations for anticipated knife fighting. It’s today, with gun confiscation, national health care, and Big Brother, all carefully planned by President Hillary.


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Cameron Reddy

[This message has been edited by Cameron Reddy (edited 06-03-2000).]
 
Cameron,

The quillions are made to be used for a VERY substantial guard against blade on blade play. It will also protect your fingers quite well. They are made VERY well & attach SOLIDLY when you thread them in. Look at the CROSSADA pic, & where you see the hole near the guards is where you attach the quillions. Basically, if you know trouble is brewing you screw them on. When you carry, there is NO WAY in hell to implement them, but for home defense & such they work very well. I leave my unsheathed CROSSADA with quillions attached by my bedside, next to my Glock & flashlight. Basically, when you put it down with the quillions attached, it stays at attention & can be grabbed & brought to bear VERY fast! Hope that helps... ^_^

BTW, I'd carry a sword, but they are a tad too big to conceal comfortably, so IMO this is the next best thing!



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Attila
 
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