Best Size of Thread For Threaded Tang

redsquid2

redsquid2

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Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
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Hi, everybody.

I want to make the butt end of my bowie with a simple washer and nut. I would like to be able to go to the hardware store and get a common nut that will do a good job of holding everything together tight. What is the best dimensions of threads for this? I have tried to understand thread sizes but I am baffled, so please keep your answers as non-technical as possible so I can just go to the hardware store with a number and get my bolt.

Here is a picture and I am talking of course about the profile at the bottom of the picture. I guess the tang is a tad wider than 1/4". I do not think it has to be rounded because it will still have enough threads to be strong enough. If I am wrong about that, please tell me and I will peen it instead of putting a nut on it.



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Here is a better picture:



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Our pet rabbit Alice refuses to comment:



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Thank you,
redsquid2
 
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I have made many knives with threaded tangs and matching pommels. I drill and tap the pommel rather than using a nut and bolt. If the stock is thick such as 0.25" I will often pick a slightly smaller rod size from a tap/die chart and shape it to that diameter. This gives full engagement of the threads. If the stock is thinner, I sometimes pick a larger nominal rod diameter and then you have an oval. This takes some care to thread properly and then you don't have complete engagement. However, unless you are making a takedown, then you can put plenty of JB weld in the pommel and the fit is still very secure.

I prefer this to the bolt and nut approach since that might mean that you need your guard and other pieces in place before attaching. Also I don't have a connection, simply directly threading the tang.
If you insist on a nut and bolt then anything reasonable like 1/4-20 should be fine.
 
Richard,

This is my first time doing a threaded tang, and my first bowie, so the nut seems simpler and better. What do you think? Which would be easier?

I am also curious as to what material your pommels are made of.

red
 
Do you have a tap and die set?
If so you can thread both the tang and pommel to match.
Do you expect to thread the tang directly, or attach a bolt extension?
I've never attached a bolt and find it fairly straightforward to do the threading. The biggest challenge can be drilling a centered hole in the pommel if you don't use a lathe.
I mostly use mild steel for the pommel, although I have used 416 stainless, Damascus, and brass. Mild or 416 steel are probably the easiest.
 
I have a tap and die set, but not a lathe. I expect to thread the tang directly, since I have no welding skills. I guess it will have an oval cross-section because the bar stock is about .181" thick. I hope I am making sense.
 
Yes, that makes sense.
I mentioned in my first response that I have done some with the oval cross section.
It is a little more tricky and you have to really hold the die firmly and straight. Secure the tang in a vise as close to the threads as possible. It will try to slip and grab and twist the tang. You might need to twist it back slightly with a wrench when you are done.
 
A practical size that is easy to find would be 1/4"-20 thread pitch. Many local hardware stores have specialty Bins with Brass and Stainless ACORN domed nuts.
 
I have used #10-24, #12-24, 1/4-20 and 6-1.0mm. Most are either #12-24 or 1/4-20.

TIP:
If you don't have a lathe, just drill and tap the piece of stock for the pommel or pommel nut and rough shape it on the grinder. Then, run a bolt through it and chuck the bolt in the drill press. Run the press on HIGH and use files to slowly shape the pommel/nut. When shaped pretty close, switch to sandpaper until it is finished. Use steel wool to put a final satin finish on.
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
I have used #10-24, #12-24, 1/4-20 and 6-1.0mm. Most are either #12-24 or 1/4-20.

TIP:
If you don't have a lathe, just drill and tap the piece of stock for the pommel or pommel nut and rough shape it on the grinder. Then, run a bolt through it and chuck the bolt in the drill press. Run the press on HIGH and use files to slowly shape the pommel/nut. When shaped pretty close, switch to sandpaper until it is finished. Use steel wool to put a final satin finish on.
Click to expand...
This is a good tip and I have tried various versions of it. I put threaded rod into the tapped piece for the pommel. Spinning that in a drill was less successful than I hoped. What worked best for me is to hold the rod in my hands, steadied firmly on the tool rest, turning slowly by hand while gently contacting the contact wheel of my belt grinder. I made a FS dagger and you can't tell that it wasn't done on a lathe.
(My family wasn't as impressed as I thought they should be...)
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
I have used #10-24, #12-24, 1/4-20 and 6-1.0mm. Most are either #12-24 or 1/4-20.

TIP:
If you don't have a lathe, just drill and tap the piece of stock for the pommel or pommel nut and rough shape it on the grinder. Then, run a bolt through it and chuck the bolt in the drill press. Run the press on HIGH and use files to slowly shape the pommel/nut. When shaped pretty close, switch to sandpaper until it is finished. Use steel wool to put a final satin finish on.
Click to expand...
Thank you, Stacy for taking the time to advise me on this. The technique you describe leaves a hole running through the pommel, right? Then what do you do with that hole? I guess I would need a tutorial in order to attach a pommel, because it seems very complicated. I've never done it or seen it done, and that's why I want to just make a washer and tighten a nut against it, and leave that nut visible. I have seen it in my mind over and over, and drawn it out on paper, and I think a hardware store nut that is visible would look pretty cool.
 
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I went to Jantz and found simple round pommels that you can shape however you want: 3 choices of material, 4 sizes of pommel to choose from, and 7 choices of how you want it tapped. $6.95 ea. I will probably go that route.

So easy :cool:
 
redsquid2 said:
I went to Jantz and found simple round pommels that you can shape however you want: 3 choices of material, 4 sizes of pommel to choose from, and 7 choices of how you want it tapped. $6.95 ea. I will probably go that route.

So easy :cool:
Click to expand...
I've got at least three of those lying around somewhere unused. They seemed convenient and I ordered them, but they just didn't have the look I wanted ultimately.
Regarding your earlier post, I don't see why you would drill right through and have a nut on the end unless you like that look. There are lots of options and the pommel doesn't have to be axially symmetric. You can start the handle shape on the "pommel".
 
I've made approximately 800 take-down knives. Only a few were NOT 10-32. A few larger scale knives were 12-28. Whatever size diameter you choose, go with the fine thread for that size.
The yield strength for a 10-32 is about a 1/2 ton.
If forging the knife, you MUST! give as much attention to post forging thermal cycles and such to the tang as you do the blade. That tang is now a working portion of the knife.
 
redsquid2 said:
Thank you, Stacy for taking the time to advise me on this. The technique you describe leaves a hole running through the pommel, right? Then what do you do with that hole? I guess I would need a tutorial in order to attach a pommel, because it seems very complicated. I've never done it or seen it done, and that's why I want to just make a washer and tighten a nut against it, and leave that nut visible. I have seen it in my mind over and over, and drawn it out on paper, and I think a hardware store nut that is visible would look pretty cool.
Click to expand...
You can do it as a blind tapped hole or through tapped. If you through tap the pommel, when finishing the knife you screw it down snug on the handle and when everything is done (handle shaped and all) you cut off the excess tang and either peen it or file/sand it flush with the pommel. If the knife is a take-down, you just file it flush.
 
Go to the hardware store and buy a screw and nut of every size between #6 and 3/4 keep them as a visual reference for your knowledge.

I agree #10 and 1/4 are probably where you will end up on this.

#12 is an old standard and not commonly available.
You can find them as a speciality, if you have to repair something to keep it OEM, but I wouldn't design for it.
 
redsquid2 said:
Hi, everybody.

I want to make the butt end of my bowie with a simple washer and nut. I would like to be able to go to the hardware store and get a common nut that will do a good job of holding everything together tight. What is the best dimensions of threads for this? I have tried to understand thread sizes but I am baffled, so please keep your answers as non-technical as possible so I can just go to the hardware store with a number and get my bolt.

Here is a picture and I am talking of course about the profile at the bottom of the picture. I guess the tang is a tad wider than 1/4". I do not think it has to be rounded because it will still have enough threads to be strong enough. If I am wrong about that, please tell me and I will peen it instead of putting a nut on it.
Click to expand...
I m curious how you plan to make guards for this two , they look pretty wide to me ?

D2mYPRF.jpg
 
Natlek said:
I m curious how you plan to make guards for this two , they look pretty wide to me ?

D2mYPRF.jpg
Click to expand...
I have since changed that. I filed those parts to make it doable.
 
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