Best Sword Steel(s)*

[ColsonCustoms]

I recently asked this same question, but it was under the general knife makers forum.
"Would CPM 3-V or 80CRV2 be a suitable sword steel, or should something like L-6 be used? Ideally, I am looking for a steel with toughness/impact resistance equivalent to or exceeding 5160, but with more hardness. Price and work-ability are not factors and I would like to use the best steel possible for this project.
Will be about 36" long, 1.5"-2" in width, 1/4" stock, single edge, meatier zero-convex grind. All steels will be sent off for heat treating.
Thanks for any advice you guys can give." I was told by another member that the 80CRV2 would be a good choice.
To add to my original question, what would be the hands down "best" steel for a sword. I would really like to make a premium blade, with no compromises, especially on the steel.

 

[Highlander 20026]

infi!

 

[ATJ999]

I have one slimline machete sword made of 3V. I liked it so much I'm getting another, larger one. I use it A LOT, great steel! I am also very curious about CPM 1V also. I would love to try that out!

 

[Highlander 20026]

l6 is great stuff, one of the strongest out there for a sword, check out howard clarks swords in l6, very expensive but there is a reason, they are tough as nails, literally

 

[ScottGoodman]

l6 is great stuff, one of the strongest out there for a sword, check out howard clarks swords in l6, very expensive but there is a reason, they are tough as nails, literally

You are very right, Howard Clark's L6 Bainite swords are currently considered the best performance blades in the world.

 

[afishhunter]

... I would really like to make a premium blade, with no compromises, especially on the steel.

Any steel is a compromise of different attributes.
As for the "best" steel, I suspect the heat treat would be of equal or greater importance than the steel choice. Maybe a Damascus blade with two, three, or more different steels would be "best"?

 

[horseclover]

CPM 3-V and 80CRV2 are being used by some for longer blades and one would be best served by defering to those working with a given steel.

Michael "Tinker" Pierce used to do a differential tempering with 5160. He was getting a 60 Rockwell at the edge with 5160, drawing the core or spine back. Whether or not that was really easily repeatable with a torch I would think largely a matter of trial and error.

S-7 is used by Angel Swords for extreme use. I don''t know how hard their blades are. In all honesty, 5160 marquenched with a resulting edge of 55 rc makes for a pretty tough sword blade.

Regular L6 would be fine and parallel 5160, while being a bit "rustier". L6 bainite was developed for Japanese style katana by Howard Clark more specifically to offer a performance blade that would show some very radical looking hamon. His effort was not meant to be a blade advertised as "the best". Yes, Big Tony had at it chewing up a washing machine with one and while the blade didn't break, the edge did get torn up. I think a lot of people just really don't "get it". Hanwei and that outfit out of Canada also dabbled with bainite blades but for the most part, a bit of sword mythology not quite understood by some.

From the lead post, I assume you are grinding yourself, I would suggest registering at http://www.bladesmithsforum.com/

Not to take anything away from Blade Forums and the folk here but you might get very useful swordmaking info there.

Cheers

GC

 

[Kohai999]

L6 bainite was developed for Japanese style katana by Howard Clark more specifically to offer a performance blade that would show some very radical looking hamon. His effort was not meant to be a blade advertised as "the best".[/B] Yes, Big Tony had at it chewing up a washing machine with one and while the blade didn't break, the edge did get torn up. I think a lot of people just really don't "get it". Hanwei and that outfit out of Canada also dabbled with bainite blades but for the most part, a bit of sword mythology not quite understood by some.From the lead post, I assume you are grinding yourself, I would suggest registering at http://www.bladesmithsforum.com/

Not to take anything away from Blade Forums and the folk here but you might get very useful swordmaking info there.

Cheers

GC

Where did you get this from, Glen?

The L6 Bainite blade was developed to be tougher than his 1086M. The 1086M has a pretty radical hamon, but the L6 has a fairly boring hamon, generally, it was suguha(straight). The 1086M can have choji, o-choji, gunome midari...... while it is pretty much straight hamon in L6.

You have got to be confusing the two steels.

I have a Hanwei L6 Preying Mantis and it is tied for the toughest sword I own, but it is not a superior cutter....boring ass suguha hamon.

The best single sword I have handled for the vast majority of criteria was a 3V custom made Dan Keffeler sword, in Katana style, somewhat traditionally mounted by Randy Black.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[horseclover]

Where did you get this from, Glen?

The L6 Bainite blade was developed to be tougher than his 1086M. The 1086M has a pretty radical hamon, but the L6 has a fairly boring hamon, generally, it was suguha(straight). The 1086M can have choji, o-choji, gunome midari...... while it is pretty much straight hamon in L6.

You have got to be confusing the two steels.

I have a Hanwei L6 Preying Mantis and it is tied for the toughest sword I own, but it is not a superior cutter....boring ass suguha hamon.

The best single sword I have handled for the vast majority of criteria was a 3V custom made Dan Keffeler sword, in Katana style, somewhat traditionally mounted by Randy Black.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

FWIW

Keith Larman.

I am in no way confusing the remarks of the two used by Howard Clark. If you can post a closer source to the facts as described by Keith, I'd be interested in reading them. I stand by what Keith mentioned in Howard's requests by practioners for a stronger blade while still offering a "neat" hamon. Certainly not some of the "barbed wire" hamon of 1086 work but several of the L6 blades Keith has polished are (in my mind) beyond boring.
http://summerchild.com/MyWork.html

Kevin Cashen and Vince Evans have both used L6 for swords without the bainite hype.

So, have you logged edge performance on your 3V blade on anything aside from mats? My old Hanwei Practical has had little need for resharpening now more than a dozen years later. A sword steel needs to be evaluated against material the owner plans on cutting. Said practical has hardly cut thousands of mats but figure several hundred tatami cuts (cuts, not mats) shows negligible dulling. A couple of strokes with a ceramic rod every few years is all it has ever seen and it shaves freely.

"Best" is such a horribly subjective matter.

"I have a Hanwei L6 Preying Mantis and it is tied for the toughest sword I own, but it is not a superior cutter...."
Superior cutter of what? See what I mean?

Cheers

GC

 

[horseclover]

I would add that I cut very little at this point. A stroke and other complications find me more interested in other facets of swords. I have had all of only two cuts against tatami this year and it was not with some Samurai happy pants sword Other than that, a bit of brush cutting with a long knife. I am surely not as capable as cutting rope with the same blade type as Mike Stewart with his "Panga"

The tatami cutting this spring was with a single hand Euro type. Steel soft as butter.

Cheers

GC

 

[Dan Keffeler]

I would add that I cut very little at this point. A stroke and other complications find me more interested in other facets of swords. I have had all of only two cuts against tatami this year and it was not with some Samurai happy pants sword Other than that, a bit of brush cutting with a long knife. I am surely not as capable as cutting rope with the same blade type as Mike Stewart with his "Panga"

The tatami cutting this spring was with a single hand Euro type. Steel soft as butter.

Cheers

GC

I don’t know Mike Stewart but it looks like he is about to cut his leg

 

[horseclover]

I don’t know Mike Stewart but it looks like he is about to cut his leg

Mike Stewart during the Blackjack days in the early 1990s. He now does the Bark River Knife Co.

http://blackjack.0catch.com/pages/panga.htm
http://knifesearch.blogspot.com/2014/03/ijust-put-blackjack-panga-on-e-bay.html

I picked one up recently at a decent price. The old ones are 420hc and the recent discontinued rebirth was shorter and 1086. Again, "What are you going to do with it?" Mine has ended up in the kitchen Hardly a machete.

Panga isn't really a great descriptor for them either but very similar to some long knives of SE Asia.

Yeppirs, always watch the extremeties.

Cheers

GC

 

[Kohai999]

FWIW

Keith Larman.

I am in no way confusing the remarks of the two used by Howard Clark. If you can post a closer source to the facts as described by Keith, I'd be interested in reading them. I stand by what Keith mentioned in Howard's requests by practioners for a stronger blade while still offering a "neat" hamon. Certainly not some of the "barbed wire" hamon of 1086 work but several of the L6 blades Keith has polished are (in my mind) beyond boring.
http://summerchild.com/MyWork.html

The facts are that if you are not blind, the hamons on ALL the L6 Howard Clark swords done by Keith Larman on the link you provided are suguha, you can stand wherever you want. It's not a "boring" hamon per se, when polished well, but it is "straight". I think you are referring to "o-choji" when you call something "barbed wire"

Kevin Cashen and Vince Evans have both used L6 for swords without the bainite hype.

So, have you logged edge performance on your 3V blade on anything aside from mats? My old Hanwei Practical has had little need for resharpening now more than a dozen years later. A sword steel needs to be evaluated against material the owner plans on cutting. Said practical has hardly cut thousands of mats but figure several hundred tatami cuts (cuts, not mats) shows negligible dulling. A couple of strokes with a ceramic rod every few years is all it has ever seen and it shaves freely.

Bamboo, both green and yellow. Fresh out of machine gun barrels I'm afraid.

"Best" is such a horribly subjective matter.

"I have a Hanwei L6 Preying Mantis and it is tied for the toughest sword I own, but it is not a superior cutter...."
Superior cutter of what? See what I mean?

Superior to a Bailey Bradshaw through hardened L6 katana, a CAS Tiger Elite and a CAS Shinto Elite. The Bradshaw is a very tough, hard sword, and unlikely to bend.

Cheers

GC

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[horseclover]

Look Steve, you can play the semantics and correctness game if you wish to. You basically fixated on my mentioning radical looking hamon while overlooking the reason Howard developed L6 bainite (as I know it). If I had left out radical looking, chances are you might have gotten a good night's sleep.

How on earth am I possibly confusing 1086 and the L6 hamon on Keith's pages? Whatever If I mentioned your ha as an edge, the sky would fall, no?

Again, your misrepresentation or misunderstanding of what I am writing offers little real content to a discussion of steel types. You must be blind (sic) not to realize you are only looking for a bit of a debate rather than quantify and qualify why a given steel might be exceptional. Isn't that truly a matter of context, grind, heat treat and intent? A smith I am not.

Cheers

GC

My Hanwei Practical has a much straighter hamon than this
http://summerchild.com/hc_L6Dragonfly_mccluer.htm

or how about the nakago on this one?
http://summerchild.com/hc_dragonL6.htm
"But at the same time this was a Howard Clark L6 bainite sword. So fully modern steel, near indestructible, and beautiful in a rather unique way."

Or should I have said tang instead of nakago, just to underline my ignorance?

 

[Kohai999]

I'm not trying to debate....I'm trying to understand what your point is.

I use mostly one type of sword.....the Japanese katana style....this is used to cut traditional targets.....wara, and bamboo.

In my EXPERIENCE, this type of sword made by a maker knowledgeable with geometry and heat treat for 3V would likely be ONE of the best steels to use.

Succinct and to the point....right?

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[horseclover]

Cool, and my point was that Howard developed L6 bainite to produce strong blades with a (fill in your own blank) hamon. Would aesthetic be a better word? I dunno. I never listed his work as the best, others have.

Cheers

GC

 

[Ericz]

INFI :thumbup: