BF2020 Viper Swayback Discuss Thread

[joeradza]

Blondie arrived on Monday. We went for a walk late this afternoon to the pond up the road from our house. She's a looker, as you can see!View attachment 1457943 View attachment 1457942 View attachment 1457941

That is one of the nicest. Beautiful color with just enough dips and swirls.

 

[TheFactor]

Also on a side note just for clarification while we’re on the subject of Blade steel and M390.
How any blade steel is heat treated can vary from any knife manufacture. Each blade steel has its own window of Rockwell hardness but again can vary depending on its heat treatment. M390 is generally between 60-62 hrc.
The higher the number, the harder the material, but only relative to other numbers within a given scale. For example, an extremely hard steel might have a hardness of 64 , while a fairly soft steel might have a hardness of 70 .
Again I’ve never had a performance issue though with M390 from any knife maker or manufacture. So we should be good to go with Viper
Mike if I missed anything or not correct with some info please chime in or anyone for that matter. I know just enough to get me into trouble lol and definitely not a blade steel snob but used many over the years were I’ve learned which ones I like more then others and learned a little about what makes each one tick sorta speak.
Also one of the other things I love about M390 is the edge it takes. It’s a sharpeners dream it can take a wicked edge if you ever do have to sharpen it.

 

[jideta]

I'm stoked!
Thanks Mike and all involved!

 

[TheFactor]

The Viper hard at work Sliced open the plastic bag like dust in the wind lol.
Seriously impressive. I upgraded from top ramen tonight to some Trader Joe’s Battered halibut and jasmine rice that’ll be smothered in some Tillamook extra creamy salted butter. Now the 15 minutes wait in the oven as the Magic begins

Spam is on back order

 

[WValtakis]

After a quick scrub and Rennwax buff...pretty pleased, even the divot on the mark side works out nicely for thumb placement actually

 

[TheFactor]

Ok time to see how this Viper cuts threw Halibut

 

[Rose and Thistle Custom]

I really wanted a light one but am actually pretty happy, it's not black, more of a rich, very dark brown.

Except for GECs I pretty much only buy M390 and this promises to be a good one. Like many have said, this is my first Viper and first ram horn. Not my first knife from Mike though, as always, great job and thanks.

 

[Murphjd25]

Stripped mine down and hit it with a toothbrush for a nice scrub. Couldn’t believe all the polishing compound that was left. I’m not going to wax mine, it feels rough, textured, it feels like a “horn” now. I dig it.

 

[TheFactor]

I really wanted a light one but am actually pretty happy, it's not black, more of a rich, very dark brown.
View attachment 1458027 View attachment 1458028
Except for GECs I pretty much only buy M390 and this promises to be a good one. Like many have said, this is my first Viper and first ram horn. Not my first knife from Mike though, as always, great job and thanks.

Wow looks Beautiful my friend ! That has some wonderful color and character. I think you did good brother congrats

 

[knarfeng]

Ps I take it the tang etch of "M390" is the blade steel? Is that a stainless steel? thanks to Mike at Collector Knives for making this Blade Forum Knife happen!

As has been said, a very stainless powder metallurgy steel. Extremely resistant to abrasive wear, yet takes a fine edge if sharpened correctly, as the sharpness of the delivered blades attests.
One comment to add is that, because M390 has a significant amount of Vanadium Carbide, diamond sharpening stones are highly recommended.
You can do an OK job with aluminum oxide stoes, but vanadium carbide is harder than aluminum oxide, So you don't get all the way there with alumina.
Don't use natural stones. The carbides will will win that contest if you do.

Carbon 1.90
Silicon 0.70
Manganese 0.30
Chromium 20.00
Molybdenum 1.00
Vanadium 4.00
Tungsten 0.60

 

[SpyderPhreak]

I'm happy with my rams horn as it is, if it wasn't a forum knife I probably wouldn't have purchased. I've always stayed away from buying rams horn because you never know what it will look like and it can slightly move changing the shape and even worse warp. If it was me I wouldn't clean these horns using water even if it's a little, if any moisture sets in I think you could be asking for trouble. Yes I'm cautious, yes the amount of water being used is probably not more than a sweaty hand. If the wax really bothered me I think I would try and buff it out with a soft horsehair boot brush first. Just my 2 cents.

I scrubbed mine under running warm water, with zero ill effect. I'm sure the horn could possibly absorb water and swell a tiny bit if left to soak for awhile, but it should shrink back to shape once dry. I had mine soaking wet in the sink (and scrubbed with dish soap, which makes water "wetter") for probably at least 5-6 minutes, and once I was done and dried them off, they immediately went right back onto the knife without issue. Everything still fit perfectly.

Went the other route, more is more, dog, I, an the knife took an unplanned dip into the river yesterday, the impetus for the scale removal, buff an wax. Opps View attachment 1457507

Verde? Sorry to hear about the swim.

How does horn react to oils? I have never had horn before. And as far as moisture or water is applying a wax the best protection? I have a blend of beeswax and cocoa butter i use o leather would that be ok?

Horn is essentially just compacted hair. It could likely absorb oil, moisture, and anything else that would wet out hair. I think a coating of Ren wax would be your best bet if concerned.

I'm scared of bugs, so my new handle has been sprayed with kerosene and rubbed with kerosene and linseed oil. It seems fine with it.

I really think the concern of "bugs" is pretty overblown.

So, I sharpened mine and adjusted the edge angle to around 18dps.
Didn't remove a lot of material but I could almost catch a little skin under the tip beforehand so afterwards it was a bit more pronounced.
Just enough to catch skin with no pressure.
Not a big deal but seeing as we're already discussing the mechanics of dropping the blade a little lower in the frame...I went ahead and did it.

Here's where it sits after sharpening to 18dps.
Not all that bad, just catches.

Disassembled.
There are 2 screws on each side of the frame holding it together.
I left the 2 on the other side.

Just lift the side right off, a little sticky but no trouble.
BTW, the pivot screw has some thread lock on it so you'll need 2 torx drivers.

Here's some good news.
The "kick" does contact the backspring when the stop pin is removed and prevents the blade from any contact with the spring so even if there were too much material removed from the stop pin notch the knife wouldn't be ruined.
Here's a shot of the blade tip in the closed position with the stop pin removed.

I used a Dremel with a diamond burr bit and removed just a little seeing as I only wanted to drop the blade a touch.
Used a polishing wheel after to smooth things out.
My micrometer just wouldn't really read that small amount really accurately so I can't give exact numbers.
Anyway, here's the end result after reassembly.

Here's the stop pin notch I ground.

And as I mentioned in another post, it's a little convoluted getting it apart and reassembling.
Had to clamp it down to a bench after I removed one side and with the blade in the half-stop position I inserted a small torx screwdriver into the stop pin hole and gently moved the back spring to release tension.
Did the same to reassemble.
Be careful!
I spent some years as a machinist and have a level of skill with these sort of things so unless you're comfortable just leave it alone.

And that right there folks, is how it's done! Kudos!

I wonder what the hole in the end of the backspring is for? Maybe for a manufacturing fixture? Or possibly as something to grab the backspring with to aid in assembly?

I love how the liners are pocketed slightly for the blade tang, to slightly reduce the overall thickness of the knife. Nice touch.

 

[Old Hunter]

As has been said, a very stainless powder metallurgy steel. Extremely resistant to abrasive wear, yet takes a fine edge if sharpened correctly, as the sharpness of the delivered blades attests.
One comment to add is that, because M390 has a significant amount of Vanadium Carbide, diamond sharpening stones are highly recommended.
You can do an OK job with aluminum oxide stoes, but vanadium carbide is harder than aluminum oxide, So you don't get all the way there with alumina.
Don't use natural stones. The carbides will will win that contest if you do.

Carbon 1.90
Silicon 0.70
Manganese 0.30
Chromium 20.00
Molybdenum 1.00
Vanadium 4.00
Tungsten 0.60

Thanks Frank! Between your post and TheFactor post I have learned much today that I didn’t know about this steel. OH

 

[Will Power]

My experience of this steel on Fox and Lionsteel knives, also Italian, has been extremely positive. Both knives were sharp on arrival and stropping has been enough to keep them on point I've used them in the garden on twigs, twine and also to cut cardboard packages down (which you can use as a strop as you go) Simply excellent, carbon seems Flint Age by contrast

Mine's left Florida airport now, really going up the wall here

 

[screened porch]

I really think the concern of "bugs" is pretty overblown.

I didn't say that anyone should share my concern. My point was that oil doesn't seem to hurt horn.

 

[Chui]

I didn't say that anyone should share my concern. My point was that oil doesn't seem to hurt horn.

........so long as you don't go leaving your knife in the open in Kenya for too long - the boring beetle is a tad partial to a nice bit o' horn

 

[JohnDF]

Stop cleaning your knives, the polishing compound is keeping the beetles away.

 

[TheFactor]

Stop cleaning your knives, the polishing compound is keeping the beetles away.

I thought it was used to make the beetles shiny ?

 

[Will Power]

Catastrophe Culture seems to be gaining ground.... Woodworm in the Ebony & Coco collection only if your house is already riddled with it

For what it's worth, my experience of Horn handled knives has been v.good. Here in Scandi land the indoor humidity is well, arid in winter and I need to use a humidifier. Stag can shrink, but it soon gets back into shape with a decent amount of humidity, some woods can draw back a bit too. The Horn knives that have given real trouble were all BOVINE Horn and they were American or English knives, warping, curl etc but I conclude a) low grade Horn b) improprer curing or drying process.
Once it curled it won't get back to where it should be. Now ALL of my numerous French knives in both Bovine and Ovine (sheep..) Horn have behaved impeccable, same for my Italian knives in Bovine or Muflon, no shrink, no warping at all. A RAT fixed blade from the US with very nice Muflon slabs has been totally OK in over 10 years. All natural materials appreciate a minimum 30% humidity I'd say so keep that in mind.

My horn knives get used so that helps, they get an occasional wipe down with Olive Oil or Coconut Oil and or Beeswax, frankly I would not strip off the factory polish as it's there for a reason, the Italians have a lot of experience of using Horn slabs. I believe the Ram's Horn will be with us for a long time

Thanks, Will

 

[Scott J.]

So, I sharpened mine and adjusted the edge angle to around 18dps..

What would estimate the original factory angle to be?
Also, thanks for sharing all that info with pics?

 

[Will Power]

........so long as you don't go leaving your knife in the open in Kenya for too long - the boring beetle is a tad partial to a nice bit o' horn

looks like they're even more partial to BONE that skull...