Big Choils on Folders?

A choil is a boon or curse depending on the design of the luge in question. For a Dragonfly it is a huge plus because it takes an otherwise minuscule knife and gives enough room for a 3-4 finger grip. Useless on something like a Hinderer with a forward choil because it's more of an afterthought.
 
There's another factor, if the lock fails on a Strider or PM2 the choil will save your fingers.
 
Most of my folders have finger choils on the blades. It is not a must, but it is a huge plus when I am thinking about buying a folder, or fixed blades. I use it for putting added pressure, precisely added pressure when cutting something, cutting through something dense, etc. There are lots of uses for it. It is all personal preference I guess. Some of my favorite knives do not have one, most do though.
 
Folks, I am sure this is the case for some Manufactures, They can provide the look, but I have not heard thus far this thought :

Have you ever thought about material savings from a full choil with the the quanity of blades going out the doors regards production quanities?. This deserves substantial consideration as well. Something many of us do not think of .... TD
 
TinyDog said:
Folks, I am sure this is the case for some Manufactures, They can provide the look, but I have not heard thus far this thought :

Have you ever thought about material savings from a full choil with the the quanity of blades going out the doors regards production quanities?. This deserves substantial consideration as well. Something many of us do not think of .... TD
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Okay, but how much does it cost to grind a choil opposed to doing nothing? Is there a savings difference between the two? That is more overhead and other cost that go along with grinding a knife. And with Spyderco putting intricate jimping on many choils that just increases the issue. Last, you aren't really saving on material if you are grinding it away. I guess I don't see it as a factor. In fact the opposite IMO.
 
These knives with choil are designed this way. Thought was put into it. Don't think material saving was a priority. It wouldn't be a pm2 or strider without it . Without choil whole handle needs to be redesigned. Some like it some don't. I'm happy Sal Glesser thinks it should be there.
 
Agree a choil on a smaller bladed knife not a full handled knife (PM2)

The Sage 2 is perfect with a choil.

Had a 3" Hinderer with a choil, but the flipper tab just gets in the way and makes is uncomfortable. Hinderer needs to be a 3.5" with no choil for proper grip, the choil is useless to me on a Hinderer due to design.
 
My biggest objection is knives that almost require placement of a finger in the choil for a proper grip, while having a sharp blade corner that digs into said finger.
(And I don't even have sausage fingers)
 
Well it must be I have XL hands - I win, you have sm/med hands - you lose? I've never met a finger choil I didn't like. Of course, generally speaking, how a knife "handles" has always been more important to me than blade length. I find that getting my index finger very close to the cutting edge (as accomplished with a finger choil) offers precision and safer cuts. YMMV. I remember my first beer.
 
dkb45 said:
A choil is a boon or curse depending on the design of the luge in question. Useless on something like a Hinderer with a forward choil because it's more of an afterthought.
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This makes a lot of sense because I do like Hinderer folders just not with the honk'in choil cutout. I can see where a lot of the designs have a big choil incorporated into them already so you can't fix that I guess. I just don't care for a big choil in front of the handle itself and I guess is why I still carry my 27 year old police still. I need to check out the millie someday. I sure like the feel and flatness and no honk'in choil on the police model though.
 
Fair enough! I do not know the cost for grinding a finger choil. Being in the manufacturing industry I would think it would a very quick machine operation and the material re-purposed that would lead to the savings?
 
TinyDog said:
Fair enough! I do not know the cost for grinding a finger choil. Being in the manufacturing industry I would think it would a very quick machine operation and the material re-purposed that would lead to the savings?
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I may have some useful thoughts on this.

Typically, mass-produced blades are cut out from a sheet of steel. The cost of the sheet is divided between the number of blades. So, if a sheet costs $50, and it yields 50 blades, then each blade costs $1 worth of steel. Likewise, the cost of electricity to run the plasma cutter, and wear and tear on the machinery.

The heat treat cycles cost electricity and nitrogen for the quench, then electricity to run the tempering oven. Then it goes on to bevel grinding (or the bevels are ground before HT), which includes the cost of the belts, and the man-hours of the folks who run the grinders.

You can amortize it all into the cost of each knife.

So, looking at a choil as "losing" steel, versus another blade shape, is not accurate, because the factory plans the design long before steel touches the cutters.
 
The above assumes that the blade blanks are cut with a plasma cutter or laser cutter or water jet. They might also be stamped out of the raw sheet. In any case, there is no material saved, it is all returned in scrap value if anything. There are only gimping (if required) and finishing steps required to finish a choil. It is much more labor or process intensive to sharpen the blade edge. I would hazard to guess, if there is any real benefit, that the cost saving is not in having to sharpen as much steel correctly. In all reality there is probably no tangible cost saving.

IMHO finger choils have their place for some, but as anything else with fashion, finger choils have as much to do with fashion and fads as being there for real reasons.
 
Yeah cuz you pick them off the choil plant with the choils already grown. They'd have to grind and sharpen that otherwise.

When you pick it off the plant it's already fully formed. No extra work needed. Didja forget everything we learned in the Jimping Wars?
 
HowAmI said:
Less surface area you have to grind and sharpen. Reread my post you didn't read it correctly.
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So setting the plunge further up, cutting out the choil, adding jimping, shaping the handle and liners (the whole design) to match is less time?

Welp, I don't agree and many others won't either. I did read your post correctly.
 
Some people like them for functionality or because they look cool. For small knives, they just take away from the edge (probably cheaper to make)
 
I sincerely doubt that saving money/steel/abrasives really enters into the decision by a maker to include or omit a finger choil. It is a design decision, pure and simple. It provides a safe and secure way to choke up on a blade for better control in fine detail work. I don't use my choils much, but my best knife-enthusiast friend uses his constantly. Different strokes...
 
craytab said:
So setting the plunge further up, cutting out the choil, adding jimping, shaping the handle and liners (the whole design) to match is less time?

Welp, I don't agree and many others won't either. I did read your post correctly.
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Obviously you didn't and you never will. I would love to see where I put the word ADD in my original post.

HowAmI said:
Blades like the PM2 or Striders that rob you of an extreme amount of cutting edge are pointless. Now something like that CRKT Batum, that's how a finger choil should be not an excuse to spend less time on the blade. Cough WE 605, Any Strider/Duane Dwyer, Spyderco Cough
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