Big Survival Knife Steel, 1095 or 5160

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evildick

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What steel do you feel is better all around when it comes to your big survival knives. When I say big survival knives I am talking about your choppers, knives like the BK9, Buck Hoodlum, ESEE Junglas, Ontario Spec Plus Gen II SP 50, ect.

Do you feel 1095 or 5160 is best for these knives?

I do not want to know which knife you like best but what steel you feel is best in these big choppers, 1095 or 5160. Not D2 or CPM this and that or A2 or some other steel or plastic but 1095 or 5160.

What am I going to be using the knife for? It dont matter, I will be using it for anything and everything in the jungles to the desert to the ice covered oceans of the north pole to the American great outdoors to chopping my Big Mac in half at McDonalds.

Here is a little food for thought:

The 10-series -- 1095 (and 1084, 1070, 1060, 1050, etc.): Many of the 10-series steels for cutlery, though 1095 is the most popular for knives. When you go in order from 1095-1050, you generally go from more carbon to less, from better edge holding to less edge holding, and tough to tougher to toughest. As such, you'll see 1060 and 1050, used often for swords. For knives, 1095 is sort of the "standard" carbon steel, not too expensive and performs well. It is reasonably tough and holds an edge very well. It rusts easily. This is a simple steel, which contains only two alloying elements: @.95% carbon and .4% manganese. The various kabars are usually 1095 with a black coating.

5160: A steel popular with forgers, it is extremely popular now and a very high-end steel. It is essentially a simple spring steel with chromium added for hardenability. It has good edge holding, but is known especially for its outstanding toughness (like L-6). Often used for swords (hardened in the low 50s Rc) because of its toughness, and is also used for hard use knives (hardened up near the 60s Rc).
 
I do not want to know which knife you like best but what steel you feel is best in these big choppers, 1095 or 5160. Not D2 or CPM this and that or A2 or some other steel or plastic but 1095 or 5160.

1095 or 5160 please.
 
If used the RIGHT way, 1095 will be much better.
BUT, if you want to do anything with this knife, and use it in extreme condition, get 5160, and overtemper it, so it will be even a bit softer than standard optimum.
 
1095 or 5160 please.

Do you have 2 knives, one in each of these steels, and you are trying to pick one?

If so, link them. Or state why you are stuck on those two steels.

Lots of people on this forum have a wide range of experience with steels and due to that experience they have preferences. You're going to get a much more helpful response if you provide more information on either why you want one of these two steels or linking the knives you are looking at.
 
Do you have 2 knives, one in each of these steels, and you are trying to pick one?

If so, link them. Or state why you are stuck on those two steels.

Lots of people on this forum have a wide range of experience with steels and do to that experience they have preferences. You're going to get a much more helpful response if you provide more information on either why you want one of these two steels or linking the knives you are looking at.

Most all compinies that produce these knives use 1095 or 5160. I understand steels. I am a college trained machinist and have heat treating and metalurges classes out the behind.

It is a simple question to pass the day and see why others consider the best of the two and would buy first and why.

Maybe I want to produce some low cost knives on a 5 axis cnc machine in my free time and I am doing a little studying. I do not want steels that are too hard for others to understand and be afraid of to buy.

Its a very simple question to find out who knows what and who to listen to and to see what people think.

1095 or 5160, not what you want to talk about but what I want to find out.

I all ready posted what kind of knives I was talking about.

Thanks.

1095 or 5160 and why.
 
5160 is extremely tough. I'm not sure why everyone's bashing these steels. Maybe i wouldn't pay 300 dollars for a knife made with them, but with a good heat treat you will never need anything more. both can make excellent choppers. But for heavy chopping/ batoning i would use 5160. 1095 is more suited to a smaller slicer in my opinion. Alas the Hoodlem looks like a great blade. Maybe a tad overpriced for me but check out some reviews/ tests on youtube and you'll be a believer. nutenfancey has a good one.
 
I've seen more custom choppers out of 5160 than 1095. Supposed to be springier and stand up to shock better from what I have heard. I'm no metallurgist, but both are old school, rugged steels and either one would be fine.
 
If I had to choose between those two for a large chopper I would go with 5160. I think it would probably be tougher than 1095 and the heat treat is very easy and hard to mess up. Even I have hardened and tempered a couple of 5160 blades and managed to make pretty decent knives out of it for my own use.

I remember years ago I also hardened/tempered what I think was 1095 for another of my knife experiments and I seem to remember it required very rapid cooling using brine to get the full maximum hardening. This was for a small knife I made from an old Nicholson file which I was told at the time was made from 1095. It also turned out OK and I still have it to this day.
 
I've seen more custom choppers out of 5160 than 1095. Supposed to be springier and stand up to shock better from what I have heard. I'm no metallurgist, but both are old school, rugged steels and either one would be fine.

Agreed.

@evildick
I've had a little more experience with 1095 than 5160, but have nothing really negative to say about either. I have a current survival knife made of 1095 and am thinking about the Buck Punk and it is also 5160. I'm 60 and have had knives all my life. In that time, I have only broken one or two blades and in those cases I was misusing the knife AND it was seriously cheap crap.

The problem that you are running into here is that both are old school metals. Neither are the hot new steels but I think that they get an undeserved bad rap. Not as good as the new stuff, but not that bad either.

My thoughts are to find the knife that you want and consider what you really want to do with it. A knife isn't a pry bar but you can use lesser metals to do what you need if the knife is properly designed and tested. So, my first consideration would be the knife and the design and only then, if satisfied that the knife was solid and well built, would the difference in 5160 or 1095 blade steel come into play. I would be unconcerned with a well built knife made of either metal.

JMO.
 
The honest answer is either steel. I also don't know why everyone is bashing these steels, with proper heat treatment they can both perform very well. Just because a steel is cheaper than a complicated alloy doesn't mean it is "low end budget steel..." It is simple steel, that performs with excellence and is very flexible and non-tempermental. It is cheaper to produce, therefore cheaper to buy.
When has price ever meant beans when applied to performance? If it sucks so bad then why on earth would anyone ever consider it for use in their ABS cut and bend test???
Pick either, treat accordingly, you'll be happy.
 
I wouldnt go with one of those steels but given the knives you listed I would go with 1095 just because Rowen does 1095 better than any other production company from my experiences.

Now I know that Buck knows a thing or two about heat treating so I would assume they would do a good job on 5160 but I have no experience with there 5160.
 
What am I going to be using the knife for? It dont matter, I will be using it for anything and everything in the jungles to the desert to the ice covered oceans of the north pole to the American great outdoors to chopping my Big Mac in half at McDonalds. .

Why would you need a survival knife at McDonalds? (Actually I think most people do their "survival" within a 20 minute drive in their gassed up car from a McDonalds :D)

So...I take it by "survival knife" you are talking about some big basher/smasher/chopper that you can beat the bejeebus outta innocent trees with? Nothing wrong with that, but it would be helpful if we knew what you planned to do with your knife....always helps us to suggest something.

Since you are, apparently, going to be doing this bashing in the jungle and in salt water, I would consider something in stainless.

(Oh, BTW, I don not believe that "When you go in order from 1095-1050, you generally go from more carbon to less..."...you specifically and by a certain amount go from more carbon to less. Nothing "general" about it.)

As for 5160 vs 1095? 5160.
 
I feel the question is moot from the get-go, but since it's to pass the time then I'll bite! :D

As they say: It's not the steel, it's the smith.
Anyone who says otherwise is misinformed or trying to sell you something. ;)

And as has already been mentioned, either one, heat treated properly, will serve you just fine.
I have more experience with 1095 and have no problem recommending it. In fact, one of my favorite knives is the Ontario SP10. But both are tried and true and have served me well. Seems 1095 is easier to find, however, so I'd be more inclined to go with that.

On a side note, if you're going to be working the steel yourself, be especially careful with 5160 since it contains chromium.
I've had metal fume fever from the manganese in simple steels and no way in hell would I want to tangle with chromium in such a way.
 
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The concept of multiple "bests" is fascinating. All the children are above average?

If multiple "bests" invokes the idea of "Best" for what?" we are stuck. The OP does not specify. It's a "do all" knife: hacking to sandwich knife.

If 1095 is "excellent," what is 3V? Uber uber gross excellent?

In Uncle Bill's memory, I vote for 5160. ED: Because it is tougher and more rust-resistant in my experience.

As you have metal urges classes out the behind, are you going to share what you think, OP?
 
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I'd take 5160, but that's just me. 1095 will work, as the Junglas has shown, but given the choice between 1095 and 5160 for that class knife, 5160 every time.
 
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