Black raven identification

R

Rick Holt

Joined
Feb 19, 2019
Messages
46
I bought a black raven double bit , Kelly axe mfg Co. has shadow head , 6 ridges in eye, need help , ridges and shadow head and date of embossing doesn’t add up ! Any ideas , I’m new to axe collecting as well as this sight , but I’ve read your discussions and there seems to be a lot of very knowledgeable people , hope I didn’t get taken !
 
If you can post pictures it is helpful. I use postimage.com, upload images, copy using the “hot link for forums” option, and paste on your post here.

To my knowledge the black ravens pre date eye ridges by at least 20 years.
 
Rick Holt said:
I bought a black raven double bit , Kelly axe mfg Co. has shadow head , 6 ridges in eye, need help , ridges and shadow head and date of embossing doesn’t add up ! Any ideas , I’m new to axe collecting as well as this sight , but I’ve read your discussions and there seems to be a lot of very knowledgeable people , hope I didn’t get taken !
Click to expand...

Welcome to the forum mate.

Some of the guys here are super knowledgeable and could probably tell you if that adds up just from the information you have given but ideally if you could post some photos.

I saw on ebay only a week ago somebody was selling a Black Raven that was blatantly fake to the trained eye. It either sold or ebay pulled it because a few guys reported it. Would have taken a bit of work to make the stamp so I am suspecting this crim had intended to do it more than once.

If in doubt in the future post here first for advice on authenticity.

Good luck pal. And post pictures :)
 
or etching rather? I suppose you can't stamp something that intricate it wouldn't come out so clean?
 
The double bit black raven that sold for $850 on Ebay, with ridges in the eye and bevels, is a fake. Perhaps the seller got taken or perhaps the seller made it himself. I doubt you'll be able to get your money back, I don't think Ebay works like that with fakes, also the seller had something like 0 reviews or past sales? Burner account, probably won't be able to get ahold of him again, keep the shipping box label as a record of who it came from.
 
Blue Sasquatch said:
The double bit black raven that sold for $850 on Ebay, with ridges in the eye and bevels, is a fake. Perhaps the seller got taken or perhaps the seller made it himself. I doubt you'll be able to get your money back, I don't think Ebay works like that with fakes, also the seller had something like 0 reviews or past sales? Burner account, probably won't be able to get ahold of him again, keep the shipping box label as a record of who it came from.[/QUOT
Click to expand...
 
Well that sucker was me ! I thought something was wrong when I researched it for the shadow bevels and saw the forum discussing the ridges and dates they were add to heads , and realized things weren’t adding up . Thanks for help !
 
Rick Holt said:
Well that sucker was me ! I thought something was wrong when I researched it for the shadow bevels and saw the forum discussing the ridges and dates they were add to heads , and realized things weren’t adding up . Thanks for help !
Click to expand...
From TT catalog page 152 Black Raven Plain Shape supplied in all standard patterns and weights
https://archive.org/details/TrueTemperToolsCatalog1R1938
https://www.worthpoint.com/inventor...0&query=black+raven+axe+double&category=tools
If I were you I would be on the phone with paypal and ebay. The seller has 2 more items to sell. You need to send it back
Seller grandpa's story doesn't add up.
I assume this the axe you purchased:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Kelly-Black-Raven-Axe-Rare-Vintage-Double-Bit-10in-Beveled-Embossed-Axe-Head-/362558942759?hash=item546a326e27:g:9DAAAOSwejNcZz39&nma=true&si=wTTLdVrmmoXoY4f1IkFVlutOrSg%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
Kelly Black Raven Vintage Axe, 3 1/2 pound Double Bit, 10 inches Beveled Embossed Axe Head(Not a Plumb, Collins, Single bit, Hatchet, before true temper). Condition is Used. Shipped with USPS Priority Mail.
Very rare beveled double bit Black Raven with a beautiful embossed stamp. You don't see many left in this good of a condition. Temper of blades can be seen in photos, there is a lot of temper in the blades left. The eye of the axe has 6 ridges. The axe head is also double stamped on the front with a 3 and the black raven logo. No Reserve Sale. Double bit axe head is working sharp and ready to be hung on a handle. I didn't really want to sell this one but I decided to go ahead and let it go. I am happy to answer any questions.

Axe head is a beveled double bit Embossed Kelly Black Raven with an amazing stamp. It has a 3 stamp on the front as well as a embossed Kelly black raven stamp. The axe head is 10 inches long and 4 and 1/2 inches at the blade. Please look at the photos, in a few of the photos you can see the temper line on the blade is visible, and there is a lot of temper left in the blades.
Was one of my late Grandfathers old axes, He collected axes since he was 9 and the black ravens were his favorite. He would buy a Black raven axe whenever he found one he said he got his first Black Raven axe when he was 9 he told me. This axe head sat on a shelf on display in his work shop on display for at least 40 or 50 years. He purchased this axe head in a box along with a few others from a gentleman in northern California around the 1960s, who worked in the logging industry. The man who sold my Grandfather the box of axes and axe heads in the 1960s was in his 80s at the time. So I believe this axe head is pre 1930s because of the embossed stamp, Kelly axe company was purchased by another company in 1930 and the embossed stamp was changed after 1930. The Double bit axe head is in amazing condition for its age.
I am open to possible offers, just email me an offer if your interested, and I am happy to answer any additional questions.
 
Last edited:
Thanks for taking the time to research more info for me :) every extra piece of info has been valuable and educational!
 
Maybe it would more useful in this thread to ask for some close ups of the embossing on the one you bought, if it’s not too much to ask?
 
Oddly the seller actually pointed out that stamp is wrong for the period, the pre-1930 design, before the merger with AFAHco/True-Temper.
The latter design obviously should have said “Kelly Axe Manufacturing Co. Of the American Fork and hoe Co.”

So it’s a pre 1930 design on the stamp but there is no way the ridges in the eye Predate 1930.
(I’d make sure to emphasize this in your appeal to eBay.)
 
Your spot on ithinkverydeeply, this crook is fairly good at creating a fake but not about history of Kelly axe history . But I guess he only had to be smarter than someone less informed , me ! Thank you for help to get me information to prove this guy is selling fakes .
This has been a learning experience for me and finding this website has been great , so much information.
 
Just started collecting , have watched the older ravens go for big bucks , have one raven that is also double bit in good condition and it’s a af&h . Thought this would go nicely with other toward having a matching set . Also no patients, see something I want and reason shuts down and stupidity and want over rides reason , that’s how I end up with multiple wives !
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top