Black Talon 2 or Steel tiger for SD?

Serrated would cut about 4x deeper into flesh if I recall correctly, but I would rather the Steel Tiger than the Black Talon 2. Fixed blades are better than folders every time if we're talking straight performance.
 
IMO, for realistic SD scenario, it's probably not gonna be mano-a-mano knife fight(when reach and the size of weapon matters), so the retention and ease of deployment is probably much more important than anything else. I would choose Tiger Claw based on the retention alone, provided if you use it like a real karambit, not putting your pinky in the ring.

Regarding PE vs SE, read post #6 from the discussions below, by Michael Janich himself:
https://www.spyderco.com/forumII/viewtopic.php?t=43613

You should be able to find a lot of info about Michael Janich by Googling him, or search on Youtube. I got a feeling that if you ask him which CS he will choose for SD he's gonna say the Tuff Lite.....
 
MichaelMyers said:
Which would be more effective for personal defense purpose? Plain edge or serrated?
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Michael Myers talking of "SD" Wink wink, I read ya loud n clear.

Id go with the Tiger, Steel (fixed) or Claw (folding) over that hideous Talon. Hell, I'd get them both before getting that Talon.

Kwon Kwang said:
Serrated would cut about 4x deeper into flesh
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And Daaaang Kwang, thats some... useful information. >=}
 
Oops steel tiger is a fixed blade. So actually I meant tiger claw in my post. Confused by the options with the word tiger.
 
About serrated cutting 4x deeper. Hmm i don't know. What i understand is serrations helps in draw cutting while plain edge is better for push cutting or chopping. Same principle for coarse vs polish edges. For draw cut slashers such as the Talwar I would agree that serrated would have the edge. But for hawkbills like these it isn't as straight forward. Once the hook part dig in, the cutting mechanics seem more of a push cut to me?
 
MichaelMyers said:
Oops steel tiger is a fixed blade. So actually I meant tiger claw in my post. Confused by the options with the word tiger.
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If this is the case, I would certainly prefer the serrated Black Talon. That is a brutal knife, and just as importantly for your purposes, it looks brutal.

I like the Black Talon better than the Tiger Claw because of the larger blade as well as the fact that I am not trained in pencak silat. Supposedly, some folks in the tactical community like karambits because you can, due to the ring, operate a firearm without letting go of your knife. If this is important to you, or you happen to have some training in the appropriate martial arts, you might consider the Tiger Claw.

The Black Talon borrows its shape from the Spyderco Civilian and improves on that knife substantially in my opinion. The Civilian was designed for use by those who are not trained to use a knife as a weapon. Another thing to consider.
 
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Does anyone have a Black Talon 2, and if so, is the tip stronger than on, say, the Spyderco Matriarch? If so, the BT2 would be better able to handle day to day cutting chores and not be limited to only self-defense. Or is the tip still relatively fragile like the Civilian or Matriarch?

Jim
 
James Y said:
Does anyone have a Black Talon 2, and if so, is the tip stronger than on, say, the Spyderco Matriarch? If so, the BT2 would be better able to handle day to day cutting chores and not be limited to only self-defense. Or is the tip still relatively fragile like the Civilian or Matriarch?

Jim
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I have a BT2 PE. I believe I read they intentionally made it stronger (?) but it definitely looks stronger (having handled a few Civilians but not owning one). I have a Matriarch 2 SE if you wanted comparison pics (?)

I'm loving the BT2 right now. I was worried it would bother me doing in-pocket carry (I don't do clips) but it does not so far (had it 2-3 weeks, carry everyday in police uniform or baggy khakis). It comes out b y catching the thumb disc on the pocket seam better than any previous "waved" knife I have owned. The only downside is the thing doesn't seem like it's as sharp as I had imagined it would be (note-it has a chisel edge, which is odd but no deal breaker). It isn't "dull" by any means...I guess more playing and testing is in order!
 
KLnrPW2.jpg
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Thanks, David! Great pic.

The BT2's tip does look a bit more robust than the Matriarch's, at least from the side. I'd also assume that the blade is a bit thicker at the spine right before the very tip? Also likely a bit stronger tip because the BT2 looks flat ground as opposed to the Matriarch's hollow grind.

Jim
 
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Personally I prefer plain edge knives to serrated pretty much every time. Fixed blade over folder for self defence although the knife you are most likely to carry every day is the one you want.
 
Buffalohump said:
Personally I prefer plain edge knives to serrated pretty much every time. Fixed blade over folder for self defence although the knife you are most likely to carry every day is the one you want.
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I agree with this whole-heartedly. I didn't have any Spydercos with serrated blades in my current inventory (had owned them in the past years ago) so I decided I wanted at least one. I found a deal on a Mat 2 so I carried it in my left pocket paired with an Endura 4 in my right in PE. I then picked up a Lil Matriarch to pair with my Delica 4 PE when in lighter or thinner pants. :D

Regarding the knife you have with you-this is absolute truth. While I love the idea of a fixed blade for EDC, I can't COUNT the times I have bought them thinking "I will MAKE this work" only to realize that it's extremely difficult to carry a fixed blade knife on you daily. And I am a FT LEO so I ALREADY carry a handgun concealed (so I already have some sort of covering garment on anyway). On top of this I am a BIG guy-so I should have plenty of latitude on placement and carry...in theory anyway.

I've resigned myself to the idea that a fast deploying folder is probably the best option for ME. This not withstanding...I am ALWAYS looking at more fixed blades! :)
 
David From NC said:
I agree with this whole-heartedly. I didn't have any Spydercos with serrated blades in my current inventory (had owned them in the past years ago) so I decided I wanted at least one. I found a deal on a Mat 2 so I carried it in my left pocket paired with an Endura 4 in my right in PE. I then picked up a Lil Matriarch to pair with my Delica 4 PE when in lighter or thinner pants. :D

Regarding the knife you have with you-this is absolute truth. While I love the idea of a fixed blade for EDC, I can't COUNT the times I have bought them thinking "I will MAKE this work" only to realize that it's extremely difficult to carry a fixed blade knife on you daily. And I am a FT LEO so I ALREADY carry a handgun concealed (so I already have some sort of covering garment on anyway). On top of this I am a BIG guy-so I should have plenty of latitude on placement and carry...in theory anyway.

I've resigned myself to the idea that a fast deploying folder is probably the best option for ME. This not withstanding...I am ALWAYS looking at more fixed blades! :)
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+1
I think the best SD knife is the one that is on you when you need it. TBH when it comes to the point when you have to defend yourself with a knife, what kind of knife you have probably does't matter as much as being able to use it. Even a tiny box cutter will help, and a rock or chair might be more effective.

BTW while the tiger claw and the black talon are both excellent cutter, it lacks piercing ability. Not gonna go into which method is more effective, but it's always good to have different options.
 
hkyew said:
BTW while the tiger claw and the black talon are both excellent cutter, it lacks piercing ability. Not gonna go into which method is more effective, but it's always good to have different options.
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I don't know about that. Those blades would pierce just fine. Of course, not in a straight, stabbing motion, but those blades will definitely pierce in snapping, hooking or slashing motions.

Jim
 
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