Black talon or vaquero xl

[Hermit_Knight]

Hey all what do you think is better at slashing a black talon 2 or a vaquero serrated? S curve vs reverse S curve!

 

[Mike Sastre]

Hey all what do you think is better at slashing a black talon 2 or a vaquero serrated? S curve vs reverse S curve!

Both are great SD pieces but employed slightly differently if you want to maximize the designs. I have a lot of love for each knife. Quick answer is that the Vaquero is the better pure slasher and the Black Talon 2 combines a sinking of the point before slashing to make a very powerful rip. The Vaquero will be a little better at longer range slashing; the Black Talon 2 works better closer. Think of the Black Talon 2 as a raptor's claw (talon) that will pull and rip. It gets very ugly fast in a SD situation. All you have to do is have a strong grip on the knife, sink the tip deep into the target, then power the rip with body weight, by either twisting your hips or dropping. Try this with a friend: standing to his/her side, crook your index finger like a claw, then sink your finger into friend's tricep (like a talon), then with no arm motion, twist your hips, and feel what happens. That technique works with any hawkbill, large or small, and is easy to use. With the BT2, you could also slash into sinking the point (depending on how the knife first engages the target), but the main thing is to get the point in as deep as you can before ripping out. It is a focus changer, which is really what you want in an SD situation. Change the attacker's focus from you, into getting himself immediate medical attention. I use that "finger demo" at Gun & Knife shows when someone asks what he can get for his wife/gf for SD, and I know they will not be training but need something simple to use that is still very effective.

 

[BitingSarcasm]

I have one of each, and they really handle differently. Mike covered what the BT2 is really good at, those ripping slices. The damn thing has such strong closing action that I have been spiked several times by that tip; with muscle behind it, it has absolutely crazy ripping action. I got the Vaquero Grande 22 years ago, and I have used it for a huge array of cutting tasks over that time. What it excels at is catching the target medium and forcing that S curve through. The fun part is that it works both going forward and going back, so push cutting is just as effective as pull cutting. You can "slash" by punching the blade straight forward and rolling the tip down as you go. This came in useful in hiking or in confined areas where I didn't really want to be taking big, wide swings. So the Vaquero and the BT2 are both good slicers, but each one has something special in the trick bag.

 

[nephron]

I EDC a XL Vaquero, it is very versatile(and huge). For slashing I carry the Tiger, the Tiger Claw is also a good choice but the 3" blade hampers its usefulness for me. Any will get the job done with training/experience and physical condition the limiting factors. The architecture of the Black Talon never appealed to me so no experience with it.

 

[DocJD]

The XL Vaquero SE is for me much the more useful knife and easier for the less trained to use in SD . Viciously effective in slicing and slashing AND that Nogales tip is also great for stabbing / shanking . The handle is very ergonomic , and large and thick enough to properly handle the knife in a multiple of grips .

I love the BT 2 , but the handle is rather thin for the sake of easier compact carry . The OAL is significantly less than the XL Vaquero . The hook can be devastatingly effective for SD but I feel it's takes more training to use effectively . Same as a Karambit and similar fighting knives . It's value for utility is limited by the thin handle and the somewhat delicate hooked beak . Vast improvement over the Spyderco Civilian , but still not really strong for working use .

 

[Hermit_Knight]

Thanks for all the informative replies I learnt a lot especially from Mr Sastres raptor claw description. I think I’ll get one, karambits are illegal in my country but the black talons are not. I wander if they will ever make an xl version of it!

 

[Man with no name]

The Black Talon is essentially a beefed up version of Spydercos Civilian. A knife that was designed primarily for self defense applications. The Vaquero, while great for defensive use, can also serve as an eveyday work knife. I like and have both knives, but if I had to pick only one it would be the XL Vaquero.
A little history about the Civilian and how/why it came to be.

In the 1990s Spyderco was approached by a specialized branch of U.S. law enforcement about making a knife for their undercover agents. These plain-clothes LEOs found themselves in situations where they often could not carry a firearm but carrying a knife was not a problem. Most had no formal training in self-defense tactics or MBC but as a last resort could use a blade to protect or extricate themselves from a life-threatening situation. This was how the Civilian model came to be.

The Civilian has a patented reverse "S" blade that's intended to be used like an oversized claw. The tip is ground to an ultra-thin profile. Deeply curved and full at the belly, the VG-10 ground blade excels in slicing and is available fully SpyderEdged. Because of its distinctly specialized features it is not intended or designed for general utility or everyday use. Curved in all the right places for ergonomic use and retention of the knife, the handle is black G-10. A two position clip supports discreet tip-up or tip down carry on the right side. One of the most specialized CLIPITS in the Spyderco line-up, the Civilian is available in limited quantities.

 

[Hermit_Knight]

The Black Talon is essentially a beefed up version of Spydercos Civilian. A knife that was designed primarily for self defense applications. The Vaquero, while great for defensive use, can also serve as an eveyday work knife. I like and have both knives, but if I had to pick only one it would be the XL Vaquero.
A little history about the Civilian and how/why it came to be.

In the 1990s Spyderco was approached by a specialized branch of U.S. law enforcement about making a knife for their undercover agents. These plain-clothes LEOs found themselves in situations where they often could not carry a firearm but carrying a knife was not a problem. Most had no formal training in self-defense tactics or MBC but as a last resort could use a blade to protect or extricate themselves from a life-threatening situation. This was how the Civilian model came to be.

The Civilian has a patented reverse "S" blade that's intended to be used like an oversized claw. The tip is ground to an ultra-thin profile. Deeply curved and full at the belly, the VG-10 ground blade excels in slicing and is available fully SpyderEdged. Because of its distinctly specialized features it is not intended or designed for general utility or everyday use. Curved in all the right places for ergonomic use and retention of the knife, the handle is black G-10. A two position clip supports discreet tip-up or tip down carry on the right side. One of the most specialized CLIPITS in the Spyderco line-up, the Civilian is available in limited quantities.

Thanks for the history mate. I didn’t realise the civilian was around for that long. Those curves look nasty on both the civilian and black talon.

 

[BitingSarcasm]

Thanks for all the informative replies I learnt a lot especially from Mr Sastres raptor claw description. I think I’ll get one, karambits are illegal in my country but the black talons are not. I wander if they will ever make an xl version of it!

The BL2 is already quite large. The handle feels nice in the hand, and it is thin enough to not make a huge print in the pocket. But there is a LOT of handle for the knife in order to contain the blade shape, and if the blade goes any larger it is going be like carrying a folding agricultural tool. The Pocket Billhook?

 

[Hermit_Knight]

The BL2 is already quite large. The handle feels nice in the hand, and it is thin enough to not make a huge print in the pocket. But there is a LOT of handle for the knife in order to contain the blade shape, and if the blade goes any larger it is going be like carrying a folding agricultural tool. The Pocket Billhook?

Haha true I guess it’s one of those knives where you gotta actually handle it to see how big it is, I think I need to order one now.

 

[Mitchell Knives]

I have both knives, and would agree with many of the comments above.

The BT2 would probably be a better choice for the average person with little training.

The Vaquero obviously has a reach advantage, and would probably be a better "all around" choice; especially for someone with a bit of training.

 

[upnorth]

I like the serrated Vaq. for its favorable size to weight ratio. Big knife/very little weight. You might want to look at the serrated Hold Out one also. Have both, like both, rarely to never use them. But they give comfort while in my back pocket and negotiating the city core freak show at night.

 

[Mike Sastre]

I like the serrated Vaq. for its favorable size to weight ratio. Big knife/very little weight. You might want to look at the serrated Hold Out one also. Have both, like both, rarely to never use them. But they give comfort while in my back pocket and negotiating the city core freak show at night.

I've got a Vaquero Grande, that LCT gave me years ago, that lives in one of my winter coat pockets so it is quick and handy, and an XL Vaquero that lives in one of my vests I sometimes wear over a hoodie. Can't forget them if they live there.

 

[nephron]

Still looking for a Frenzy, that Wharncliffe Design has grown on me over the years, I think it would be a great slasher. Did pick up a juju recently.
PS- Got a Frenzy coming finally now.

 

[upnorth]

I've got a Vaquero Grande, that LCT gave me years ago, that lives in one of my winter coat pockets so it is quick and handy, and an XL Vaquero that lives in one of my vests I sometimes wear over a hoodie. Can't forget them if they live there.

I remember once years back going to get a laundry load and noticing an occasional banging clanging that I realized was coming from the dryer. I found a large Tanto Voyager in there. Worked its way out of a pocket i guess. ..........Sweet Frenzy nephron.