Blade Steel for Stock Removal?

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Greebe

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Blade Steel for Stock Removal?

Yes, yes. I know this has probably been asked 17 million times so no one needs to tell me to search the forum or Google as I have already found 15 million conflicting opinions. Thus, this is why I ask here.

What would be a good steel for starting out making stock removal knives. I have forged a few knives from 1095 and various other spring steels, but never dabbled in the stock removal method as I have not had a belt grinder. I am in the process of remedying that as I am building a KMG'ish clone.

So for strictly making knives via stock removal, what steel would be inexpensive to learn on, easy to work, easy on belts, and heat treat well? Should I stick with 1095? I am also interested in A2, but would have to send the blades out for heat treating which is fine. What about O-1 or D-2? Any others I should consider?

Thanks a lot,
Greebe
 
Greebe said:
So for strictly making knives via stock removal, what steel would be inexpensive to learn on, easy to work, easy on belts, and heat treat well?
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1084 meets all those requirements, even with the simplest of tools and HT set-up. It is not corrosion-resistant and won't hold an edge "forever" but it can make excellent-performing, very keen blades that are easy to resharp. 1095 is not a beginner steel, it's a bit touchy about how it's quenched. In my personal experience, 1084 blades have equalled or actually out-performed 1095 knives.

O1 and D2 are both also really good steels, each with thier own benifits and readily available. Neither is particularly difficult to grind; they both cost a little more than 1084 and require more precise HT.

The beauty of stock-removal is that you can use any steel you want from the simplest 1040 to the highly-alloyed "super-steels", if you can find it in the appropriate size and are willing to learn how or pay someone else to HT it. You're not limited to alloys that move well at typical forging temperatures.
 
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I would agree with the above chaps.1080/1084 is hard to beat for newer makers - Cheap to buy, Easy to find, Grinds/Files/Sands and finishes well, HT is the simplest there is ( eutectiod).
O-1 would be my second choice for stock removal in a carbon steel, and CPM-154 as my starter stainless steel.
 
I would go with what Stacy (bladsmth) said with the exception that for stock removal I point people toward the precision ground O-1 because it starts out dead flat and straight, speroidize annealed . It is much trickier to PROPERLY heat treat than 1084 so it is a tradeoff. for the air hardening steels, you can get 440C cheap but since your HT will be the expensive part you might as well spend a little more per blade and get the CPM154 so you are working with one of the best stainless steels out there

-Page
 
bladsmth said:
I would agree with the above chaps.1080/1084 is hard to beat for newer makers - Cheap to buy, Easy to find, Grinds/Files/Sands and finishes well, HT is the simplest there is ( eutectiod).
O-1 would be my second choice for stock removal in a carbon steel, and CPM-154 as my starter stainless steel.
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This is pretty much the route I have taken, but I started with 13/64" 5160. I think I would have been better off to start with something thinner because at the time I was just using files and sandpaper to shape and bevel my blades. It may have been my imagination but I found that 1084 and O1 were easier to file down than the 5160.
 
sunshadow said:
...for stock removal I point people toward the precision ground O-1 because it starts out dead flat and straight, speroidize annealed .
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PG O1 is my personal fave carbon steel. I'm not sure but I think Aldo will precision-grind the excellent 1084 he sells if you ask nicely?
 
Thanks everyone. So it would seem that 1080, 1084, an O-1 would be good to start with. While I am learning I will heat treat my own blades, but after I get to making nicer blades, I want to switch to something a little better like A-2 and just send them out for heat treatment so that I know every blade I sell will be treated properly.

What would be the best source for buying these steels over the net? (Price and quality)

Does it matter what thickness I start with? Would 1/8 to 3/16 be fine?

Are there any belts that are recommended for these three steels?

Thanks again,
Greebe
 
njsteelbaron.com Aldo is absolutely amazing to work with. he has a very good selection, too.

I am just starting off, and i went with 3/16ths becuase I wanted to do a larger blade. 1/8th will work if you want something smaller. in the end, it all comes down to intended use.

I am assuming that your grinder is a 2x72, and, in that case, get some norton Blaze belts. stay away from aluminum oxide for metal grinding.
 
O1 is what I'll be using until I have a grinder. Hand filing high tech stainless is REALLY difficult. O1 is tres machinable so for handwork that's where I'm headed. I hear it's pretty easy to harden properly as well.
 
OK thanks guys.

I might buy some of the 1084 from NJ Steel Baron. How is this company to deal with? Good steel? Quick to ship? Reasonable shipping cost?

I might try out some O-1 as well just for fun. Where should I buy it? I noticed that NJSB does not carry it. Also what is the difference in the heat treating procedure?

Thanks a lot,
Greebe
 
O-1 is really common.

Alpha Knife Supply are nice folk and carry O-1.

I can get O-1 at the industrial metal supply, the industrial tool place, and the steel supply, all cheaper than it costs with shipping. Flatground.com does have pretty good pricing, as does online metals. I have also ordered from admiralsteel.com. If those aren't enough, I think there's a sticky listing other supply places you can check.

You might consider sending O1 out for heat treating - it is an excellent steel when treated properly, and for best results, it's much trickier than it looks.

I've seen advice like "heat to red and dunk in vegetable oil" - countered by "NO, No, heat to non-magnetic then dunk in automatic transmission fluid." Don't. The results may work sometimes for some people, but you don't want to screw around on your first couple of knives.

The professional heat treaters are very good. Just send it out for heat treatment unless you have a temperature controlled kiln and oil made for quenching...
 
Lorien said:
O1 is what I'll be using until I have a grinder.
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I have another suggestion for you, my friend. Give a shout some time and we'll discuss it!

I agree with most of the folks here regarding 1084, but I would also like to add a few bits of insight that might sound incendiary, so here goes:

1084 is a great steel to start with, as it's pretty much free of any of the alloying elements that make other steels superior performers. Therefore, understand that even though it makes a perfectly serviceable blade, it won't compete with many of the more difficult to work with steels when it comes to edge retention and toughness. Use it as what it is - a stepping stone. When you're confident in your abilities, consider reaching beyond to improve the overall performance of your knives!
 
call Aldo (njsteelbaron) and ask him if he has O-1, he usually has it on his truck, there is a lot on his truck that is not on his website. I have been buying just about all of my steel from him since he started. You are dealing with Aldo Bruno himself, not some huge industrial supply company that happens to have steel. Usually I get steel from him within a couple of days of ordering. I haven't used his website, I always call or email him. Some days it takes him a few days to get back to me if he is on the road to a hammerin or show. His 1084 is a custom mix that he has a mill make up for him, it has just a pinch of Vanadium which keeps the grain size small, the stuff is beautiful to forge and infinitely forgiving. I have some CPM154 that I got from him as well, I am in the process of making a batch of blades from it that I will be sending to Paul Bos Heat Treating service.

-Page
 
bladsmth said:
I would agree with the above chaps.1080/1084 is hard to beat for newer makers - Cheap to buy, Easy to find, Grinds/Files/Sands and finishes well, HT is the simplest there is ( eutectiod).
O-1 would be my second choice for stock removal in a carbon steel, and CPM-154 as my starter stainless steel.
Click to expand...

Can you explain why you would choose 1080/84 over 52100? Also, why CPM-154 over AEB-L? Just trying to get a better understanding, thanks!!!
 
twistedneck said:
Can you explain why you would choose 1080/84 over 52100? Also, why CPM-154 over AEB-L? Just trying to get a better understanding, thanks!!!
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I don't see a lot of 52100 sold other than round stock and don't recall EVER seeing AEB-L sold where I shop.

This thread already explains well why 1080/1084/CPM-154 are good choices for the original poster's needs. Do you have some other needs that the OP didn't have?
 
What type of knife are you making? Can you get the steel type you want in appropriate dimensions (mainly thickness) for stock removal? Do you need precision ground? E.G. precision ground A2 is more expensive than AEB-L. You can get 1080/1084 in thinner stock if you look around but 1/4" thick is not what you want to grind for many knife styles.

If you intend to do your own heat treating there are lots of reasons to go with 1084. But you said that you're willing to send out for heat treat so you have more options.
 
I'm going to drop this question in here, and it's pretty much on topic.

Has anyone used metal-stock.com before? I've been looking for O1 in different sizes, like 5/32" and 9/64" and that's the only place I can find any. Any feedback?
 
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