Blade Steels - Who can REALLY tell the difference?

jimh0220

jimh0220

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Apr 15, 2008
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So I see a gazillion (I've counted) posts about type A steel is better than type B, or that knife is crap because of the steel, etc, etc, etc. I have most brands of knives, and probably every steel used, exept the extremely exotic steels that require a 2nd mortgage to have. You know what, I can't tell one steel from another. Sure, there are better knives, brands, sharpness levels, etc, but if you showed me 2 identical knives, one with a Krupps 4116 blade, one with a D2, I would see the same knives, and I would assume after using them both and caring for them the same, I still wouldn't know. Aside from the knifemakers, how many of you would know one steel from another if you weren't told, or is this just another 'mine is better' bragging point for alot of folks who are blowing smoke out their AUS?
 
i couldn't identify the given steel but after using them for a little while i could certainly notice some general differences. i do think the HT might be the biggest factor. i used to think s30v was crap after using a couple of blades with it. then i got one that so far outperformed the others that it was like being a different steel. if i hadn't known i would have said that it was.
 
I usually notice the differences by use. Some steels tend to stay sharper longer.. some wear easier.. some require more care, and some are an outright bear to sharpen and takes a LOT longer to do so.
That being said, there are many similar ones that I can hardly tell the difference between, but their makeup is usually within the same ballpark.
 
Buy a Bear Gryllis Gerber and a Dozier from AG Russell (any model) and play around with them for a week. You will be shocked at the difference.
 
My O1 knives are quite obviously easier to sharpen than my other stuff...
 
I don't have experience with any "high end" steels, but I can tell you that I can tell a difference between my old gerber paraframe, and my... anything else...

I have noticed that SK5 corrodes easier than 1095cv.

Someday I want to try a knife with awesome steel, just to see what its like. Until then though, I try to just make sure that the steel isn't mystery steel, and that its been made by a reputable company and just go with that.
 
That's what the mule team knives from spyderco are about. People talk about steel, but there's more to it than that- the most significant factors are:

1. Usage: Most people aren't going camping and beating their blades. If you baton, pry, use your knife for odd things, and otherwise use a knife in an abusive, or slightly less than abusive manner, you will notice. Which is closely related to number 2, where even super steels are not warranted for heavy usage if it is the wrong blade

2. Geometry: Blade stock thickness, the grind, the angle used to put an edge on the blade, etc. These factors matter a great deal. Think about an axe made of a super steel and an axe made of a shock resistant lower stainless steel. For people not paying a lot of attention or are novice axe users, the difference won't come through for a long, long while. However, people that do notice and look for blade performance will generally not recognize the difference between a bad steel and a bad

3. Heat treat. Take a look at the performance difference between SR101 and 52100 and report back, if you control for the above, in an Ankerson like test. The difference between the two steels is a heat treat, and yet people rave about the difference between the two. Heat treat is also responsible for how hard a blade is, and 1095 can be heat-treated for a wide variety of hardnesses, from the mid 50's to the mid 60s HRC. I personally do not have enough knives from different manufacturers with the same steel but different heat treats to comment. However, if you have a decent heat treat, you really start to see differences in

4. Blade steel. Your original question. Blade steel is the least changeable of these characteristics, and so the easiest metric to measure by. It's far easier to talk about s30v being better than 154cm and zdp-189 being sweet to slice with. It is much harder to quantify usage (look at people's varying definitions of "hard use" and "abuse" to see the lack of consensus), to compare blade grinds when manufacturers use different grinds and edge geometry, and talk about the invisible and unquantifiable heat treat. Thus blade steel becomes something to measure by, just like horsepower in cars, or caliber in guns. The more significant numbers (brake horsepower and torque; # of grains, FPS, and groups, point of aim) are not as easy to quote/make sense of, so people judge off numbers that are of secondary importance.

Most people can't tell the difference between how a Miyata and a BMW sports car handle (after you control for their perceptions and judgements). That doesn't mean the performance difference is not there. Just that the user is not.

Zero
 
There are noticeable differences in the steels and how they perform...

Telling the difference will depend on actual use along with what one is cutting.

To say they are the same is just one fooling themselves into believing something that's not true.

Someone could say they don't notice the difference, but what usually is happening is they aren't pushing them hard enough to actually tell the difference so they have a false impression and perception of what is going on.
 
Try picking up a knife model that has several sprint runs with different steels. That way you get the "same" knife, but a different blade steel. Use each for a couple weeks.

The differences between steels are more noticeable than you might think. In particular, I find that corrosion/stain resistance is one fairly easy difference to see. The type of edge a particular blade steel holds (e.g. working edge or fine edge) is more noticeable if you sharpen often.
 
Depends on what I am doing.

If all I do is open a couple of envelopes, I don't notice a difference.

If I work on a job which requires a lot of robust cutting of abrasive material, I do notice a difference.
 
Cynic2701 said:
Try picking up a knife model that has several sprint runs with different steels. That way you get the "same" knife, but a different blade steel. Use each for a couple weeks.

The differences between steels are more noticeable than you might think. In particular, I find that corrosion/stain resistance is one fairly easy difference to see. The type of edge a particular blade steel holds (e.g. working edge or fine edge) is more noticeable if you sharpen often.
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The reality is most really don't use their knives enough or cut enough material to tell the difference between pot metal and CPM S90V.

There are some who do, but percentage wise it's small compared to the overall percentage as most will wear out their locks from flipping before the knife will ever really need to be sharpened.

For most they are pocket jewelry and all the use they see is that or flipping them 100's of times a day as something just to play with and put under the microscope and complain about every little flaw they think they found.
 
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drail said:
You can easily tell the difference by sharpening them and by using them.
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Ankerson said:
There are noticeable differences in the steels and how they perform...

Telling the difference will depend on actual use along with what one is cutting.

To say they are the same is just one fooling themselves into believing something that's not true.

Someone could say they don't notice the difference, but what usually is happening is they aren't pushing them hard enough to actually tell the difference so they have a false impression and perception of what is going on.
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I agree. The differences are obvious to me when sharpening and in use.
 
If you take Spyderco Mules and hold them by the same hole in the bare handle and thunk them, they all have interesting tones. If you're not hearing it, try a different hole. :D
 
Zero_Time summed it up quite nicely.

I currently work in a warehouse, and cut everything from paper to cardboard to plastic to tape, twine, fibrous plastic straps... A lot of material in one day. I notice a HUGE difference in edge retention and performance overall between steels. As an example, I only needed to sharpen my Benchmade 940 [S30V] ONCE last week, whereas I'm in trouble if I don't have my Smith's Pocket Sharpener with me when I use my Spyderco Tenacious [8CR13MOV] every second day, especially when dealing with large amounts of compressed cardboard.

EDIT-- So yes, I would notice a difference in steel preformance OVER TIME, and I'm certainly no expert. Give it a few hours at my warehouse, I'll be able to rule out a fair few steels. Give me one work day, I'll be more accurate with my guess. I do agree that while there IS a fair amount of 'smoke blowing' going on in regards to steel discussion, there is some truth to it. Each steel will have different properties making it less or more useful for certain tasks.

For instance, I prefer to carry my 940 because of how much time can pass between touch-ups to my edge- it's not needed often. On the other hand, I like to sometimes carry my Tenacious because of how quickly I can bring it back to it's razor edge on the spot.
 
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WillardCorspe said:
Zero_Time summed it up quite nicely.

I currently work in a warehouse, and cut everything from paper to cardboard to plastic to tape, twine, fibrous plastic straps... A lot of material in one day. I notice a HUGE difference in edge retention and performance overall between steels. As an example, I only needed to sharpen my Benchmade 940 [S30V] ONCE last week, whereas I'm in trouble if I don't have my Smith's Pocket Sharpener with me when I use my Spyderco Tenacious [8CR13MOV] every second day, especially when dealing with large amounts of compressed cardboard.

EDIT-- So yes, I would notice a difference in steel preformance OVER TIME, and I'm certainly no expert. Give it a few hours at my warehouse, I'll be able to rule out a fair few steels. Give me one work day, I'll be more accurate with my guess. I do agree that while there IS a fair amount of 'smoke blowing' going on in regards to steel discussion, there is some truth to it. Each steel will have different properties making it less or more useful for certain tasks.

For instance, I prefer to carry my 940 because of how much time can pass between touch-ups to my edge- it's not needed often. On the other hand, I like to sometimes carry my Tenacious because of how quickly I can bring it back to it's razor edge on the spot.
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The real shame is that MOST of the people who really NEED the high end steels don't have them or can't/won't afford the knives etc.

I have had people write and say their blah, blah, blah in 10XX can do what CPM S90V can do and we have seen some of the same things here in the forums also from time to time, in short they are dreaming and or living in fantasy land.

Start pushing the steels (Using them) and the differences will be much more obvious.
 
I can't identify the different types of steels per se, other than that they might be stainless or not, or that they hold an edge similar to another type of steel that i have a blade out of, but performance comparisons are very telling in regards to edge geometry and wear resistance. Try sharpening then using CPM REX-121 for example, and you will see a very noticeable difference vs low-end steels.
 
Ankerson said:
For most they are pocket jewelry and all the use they see is that or flipping them 100's of times a day as something just to play with and put under the microscope and complain about every little flaw they think they found.
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Hahaha yeah that sounds about right
 
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