Blade Thickness for Utility Knives

Joined
Dec 28, 1999
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There's a discussion on sixgunner.com about knife blade thickness for utility use. One of the points made is that the old knives of the Mountain Men is a good indicator of what works best.

There's a National Park Service site in southern Colorado named Old Bent's Fort, which is a rebuilt fur-trade era Trading Post on the Sante Fe Trail. Their Sutler's Store insists that it only carries exact reproductions of the trade knives sold to the Mountain Men who traded there.

It's been almost a year, but I believe that they are a basic English Green River-y medium thickness blade belt knife, probably 6-7 inch with very plain wooden handle and leather belt sheath.

Does anyone have a picture of one of these knives?
 
Butcherknife.jpg


pic courtesy of Illinois and Wisconsin Fur Co.

They have this replica for sale at $22.00

http://www.ilwifurco.com/russellknife.htm

According to the site:
This 8inch long butcher knife is hand forged by the Russell Green River Smiths. The blade is 1 1/2inches wide and carries a very sharp edge. The handle is beech and has 3 rivets attaching it to the tang of the knife.

Cold Steel used to offer Butcher knives like these and if I'm not mistaken, Ontario still offers them through their Old Hickory line.
 
The CS Elk Skinner, American Hunter and (I believe) the Scalper models were made of 1/8" thick Carbon V. I bought several and re-handled them for various friends and family. One of the great bargains in knives. These have seen extensive use on hunting trips. The Elk Skinner in particular is a great skinning knife for large game, while the American Hunter is a superb all-round model. They also came with useful sheaths with plastic liners.
 
Originally posted by el cid
According to the site:
This 8inch long butcher knife is hand forged by the Russell Green River Smiths. ... Ontario still offers them through their Old Hickory line.
These look pretty cool. Does anyone have further info on the "Russell Green River Smiths" company? I wasn't able to find anything on the web.

For those who may actually own something like this: Is this "Russell Green River" knife basically the same thing as the Old Hickory model? The O.H. is available for $6, so I'm hoping the Green River one is a little better quality...

-- PG
 
One of my favorite subjects!

It is my understanding that the knives used by the trappers of 150 years ago were mostly very thin, like 1/16". There are probably a number of reasons for this...

1. They are easier to profile a wicked cutting edge with primitive tools.

2. They were less expensive then, just as they are now.

3. When they wanted to chop, they had hand axes and hatchets.

4. In those days it was much harder to do clean grinds from a thick spine to a fine edge. Not impossible, but harder, and it cost more, reletively speaking, than it does today to accomplish it.

Mountain men were not knife-nuts. They bought what they could afford. Remember the fur companies paid them as little as they could and charged them as much as they could for their supplies. Better to buy a half dozen cheap thin knives than one thicker one that you might loose anyway!

I'm one of those who believes that you can't just look at what was used historically, because they did the best they could with their technology, while we can do much better with ours. We can probably put as wicked an edge on a knife with a 1/8" spine as they could on one with half the spine thickness! Our steel is much better, etc. Of course it stands to reason that if we produce a modern 1/16" knife we could make it even more wickedly sharp than any knife a mountain man could dream of!

I am personally an advocate of <i>thinness</i> in utility knives. I've gained a lot of respect for the strength of modern steels working with a 1/16" thick Mora2000 "survival knife" that cost me all of $26! FWIW, I think that maybe 3/32" thickness is best for anything in the small utility-hunter class 4" or shorter (blade). More than strong enough latterally for anything such a knife should have to do, and much easier to profile correctly than thicker knives.

There is a problem in the knife industry around this though. The less expensive factory utility knives are mostly all thin, like 1/16". They sell (I'm thinking of fixed blades) for anywhere from $5 to maybe $25. If custom makers and higher-end shops are going to make small utility knives and charge from $50-$150 and up for <i>user knives</i>, how are they going to justify it? Nicer handles, better materials, and superior fit and finish are one way, but while important, they aren't the "business end" of the knife. Makers promote higher-quality steels, and this helps a little too, but cheap stainless doesn't feel all that different from ATS-34 or BG10; thin is thin. One can, however, make the blade itself <i>feel</i> more expensive by making it more substantial by thickening it!

I think this is the reason why you don't see hardly anything in either the custom or small-shop arena that are less than 1/8" thick! I do check out most of the web pages that are recommended here on BFC for lots and lots of custom and small-shop makers, some already famous, and some just starting out. I think it is very strange that even 2.5" "bird and trout" knives or "small game hunters" are almost never less than 1/8" thick! Not that there aren't a few exceptions, but even most of them are middle-tier factory products like A.G. Russell's "woods walker". I've only met ONE custom maker here on BFC who produces a standard model from 3/32" stock, that being Laurence Segal (www.rhinoknives.com/gallery 5th pic. down).

Anyway, I find it all very interesting...
 
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