Bladeforums Supporting Clone Dealer

[Sharp & Fiery]

Sharp & Fiery You stated it wasn't fair or relevant to mention liner locks. Other people have mentioned Axis locks or Spyderholes as sore points. Where is the line drawn?


So the system works? Great, thanks for your support.

I don’t have a problem with the axis lock on other knives. The patent ran out. Like you said, “other people brought that up” not me. I do have issues with knives being identical to other legitimate knife companies knives. Blatant copies.

I have lived in the knife world long enough to remember when knife makers would share their information and designs freely, and Im sure you remember those times too. Now its all about IP theft, and IG makers with all these “secret.” Those secrets were built off of FREE information from the good ol boys.

It’s not fair to bring up linerlocks because there is no patent anymore. How are you missing this?

 

[Spark]

So like I said, you are ok with some IP property theft, we just have to define where it is. What you call a "blatant copy" isn't someone else's... but somehow BladeForums.com is the place that is held responsible for the actions of others, despite them not selling the products on our site?

You are free to spend your money how you choose. I don't like being given ultimatums by people with double standards.

 

[Sharp & Fiery]

So like I said, you are ok with some IP property theft, we just have to define where it is. What you call a "blatant copy" isn't someone else's... but somehow BladeForums.com is the place that is held responsible for the actions of others, despite them not selling the products on our site?

You are free to spend your money how you choose. I don't like being given ultimatums by people with double standards.

I never gave you an ultimatum. Jeez. Time to cool our jets. Im not gonna reply to this thread anymore for now. This is going nowhere. Thanks for picking on me. That was fun.

 

[Spark]

I never gave you an ultimatum.

This is what you posted:

I was just stating the fact that if clone selling dealers are going to be able to buy dealer memberships, then I can’t renew because I don’t personally support that.

How much IP theft by a manufacturer, that is sold by a dealer on this site, is ok with you before your membership to this site is no longer conditional?

Opening mechanisms? Locks? Blade shapes? Sheath features? Where's the line drawn? Is it a single feature test? Two features? Outlines?

What other dishonesty or shady practices by other people are you going to hold us responsible for?

This isn't picking on you dude. You guys are expecting me to police every dealer member's entire catalog for any possible vague infringement that you guys can't even define. I've been accused of being bribed, the sight being sold to the Chinese, of selling out the membership & the community... so don't get het about being asked for clarification

 

[JJ_Colt45]

Ah, so there's the rub. You are ok with some IP theft, but don't want to be held to the standard you demand from others. Glad we've established that.

If their method of business is selling Kratom, or waterpipes or bootleg fireworks, I have no authority over them if it's not done on BladeForums.com, period. They're allowed to advertise within our stated rules which specify no counterfeits, fakes or knockoffs are allowed on BladeForums.com. If they fail to abide by that, it's an instant ban. If you notice, they haven't posted these items for sale here. You should also know that they tried advertising outside of the allowed forums and got locked down for those actions. You might also notice that they haven't advertised since Monday, so who knows what the future will bring.

Likewise, I allow you guys to voice your opinions about them & their business practices & ethics. All of that goes into Google, BTW. So bear that in mind; what you see isn't all that is going on.

I understand the logic behind your argument that you cannot control what they do on their website, but again this is your website ... you have complete control of who you allow to become a supporting dealer. And yes I know you won't allow direct advertising of there knockoff products here on BF. Knowing exactly what they are may be doing as much damage I'm afraid.

Yes they are going to continue selling clones on their site regardless ... but why allow them to drag BladeForums with them? I realize you are probably exhausted from all of this and I appreciate all you and the mods do here so I will leave it at this as I've said my peace and I really hope this all works out I do enjoy this place a lot. I just think this is a bad look for BF.

 

[Spark]

Knowing exactly what they are may be doing as much damage I'm afraid.

What damage, exactly? There's multiple threads calling these guys out. They aren't advertising clones here. Anyone who is blaming BFC for these guys choices isn't being wise.

Yes they are going to continue selling clones on their site regardless ... but why allow them to drag BladeForums with them? .... I just think this is a bad look for BF.

Oh it's a bad look. What they do on their site has no bearing on BladeForums.com, just like what any manufacturer or dealer does has no bearing on us. We're not endorsing them. We don't have "BladeForums.com Special [dealer] edition" knives.

 

[Sharp & Fiery]

This is what you posted:

How much IP theft by a manufacturer, that is sold by a dealer on this site, is ok with you before your membership to this site is no longer conditional?

Opening mechanisms? Locks? Blade shapes? Sheath features? Where's the line drawn? Is it a single feature test? Two features? Outlines?

What other dishonesty or shady practices by other people are you going to hold us responsible for?

This isn't picking on you dude. You guys are expecting me to police every dealer member's entire catalog for any possible vague infringement that you guys can't even define. I've been accused of being bribed, the sight being sold to the Chinese, of selling out the membership & the community... so don't get het about being asked for clarification

Firstly, that wasnt an ultimatum. That was a statement. A general post and not directed at you. Honestly, I didnt even think of you at all until you started getting all hot for me. Just enjoyed my time on BF and the freedom to voice my opinion.

Right now, my membership is conditional on how the owner of the site is treating me. Taking what other people have accused you of out on me. Seriously?

Im passionate about knives and this site. I have paid for other peoples memberships, and said very good things about BF.

So from now on, I would appreciate you asking me questions about things I posted. Not trying to get me to say something stupid because you are upset about others posts.

 

[Spark]

Firstly, that wasnt an ultimatum. That was a statement. A general post and not directed at you. ...
Right now, my membership is conditional on how the owner of the site is treating me. Taking what other people have accused you of out on me. Seriously?
v

Nah, let me save you the trouble. I don't want you spending any money here anymore, especially if you lack the integrity to stand behind your statements. I laid out my positions on this subject. You then stepped forward and put conditions on your support for the forums. I quoted you directly. That isn't "picking on you" or 'calling you out' or being unfair - you wanted your place in the spotlight so now you are getting one-on-one attention.

When the next member comes forward and says "I can't support BladeForums because [x] company makes an OTF automatic knife that's similar to Microtech's Ultratech or Scarab and [y] dealer member carries it" how do I respond to that? Or a knife with a frame lock similar to the Chris Reeve Sebenza?

You ok with blacklisting most of the knife industry? Where's the line drawn?

 

[Sharp & Fiery]

Nah, let me save you the trouble. I don't want you spending any money here anymore, especially if you lack the integrity to stand behind your statements. I laid out my positions on this subject. You then stepped forward and put conditions on your support for the forums. I quoted you directly. That isn't "picking on you" or 'calling you out' or being unfair - you wanted your place in the spotlight so now you are getting one-on-one attention.

When the next member comes forward and says "I can't support BladeForums because [x] company makes an OTF automatic knife that's similar to Microtech's Ultratech or Scarab and [y] dealer member carries it" how do I respond to that? Or a knife with a frame lock similar to the Chris Reeve Sebenza?

You ok with blacklisting most of the knife industry? Where's the line drawn?

I honestly don’t understand what you are asking me to answer and stand behind.
Are you asking me to never buy anymore knives because someone else probably came up with the shape, or hole, or thumbstud or whatever?
Can you clarify the question?
I’m not even sure what IP thefts Im being accused of supporting and being ok with.

 

[Sharp & Fiery]

Also, Chris Reeves framelock isnt patented. So its not IP theft.

 

[Eli Chaps]

Spark , we're allies not adversaries. We wouldn't say anything if we didn't care.

You've hammered on us. Do you think you could've handled this better?

 

[JJ_Colt45]

Oh it's a bad look. What they do on their site has no bearing on BladeForums.com, just like what any manufacturer or dealer does has no bearing on us. We're not endorsing them. We don't have "BladeForums.com Special [dealer] edition" knives.

What they do on their site HAD no bearing on BF until you let them become a supporting dealer here ... whether you want to admit it or not it is having an affect and most likely will further if they stay. A couple dealers that are forum supporters even expressed they felt it wasn't right but you think it has no bearing on BF? I think maybe you're not seeing it through the side I have tried to present that many are seeing it through. That being said I really hope I'm wrong.

So as I said I'll leave it at what it is.

 

[EngrSorenson]

Thanks for taking the time to explain yourself again, Spark - Sorry you found this all this waiting for you, I’m sure that was frustrating.

I think it’s time for me to move on from this debate because I’m going to have faith that you have and continue to know what you’re doing.

Personally I’d be sorry to see folks depart over this issue, since I think time will tell a story with a better ending than some have proposed.

I do love these forums and most of the people who participate. Thanks for keeping this forum going.

 

[Spark]

Also, Chris Reeves framelock isnt patented. So its not IP theft.

Using that logic, US patent law doesn't apply to China, so too bad about knockoffs made over there.

Spark , we're allies not adversaries. We wouldn't say anything if we didn't care.

You've hammered on us. Do you think you could've handled this better?

This is page 17 of a thread where I let you guys speak your mind about this with several of you making accusations about my character & integrity. When I did make my position known, I took care not to single anyone out. If you'd like to step into the ring again, feel free my dude.

What they do on their site HAD no bearing on BF until you let them become a supporting dealer here

Still doesn't provided they follow the site rules.

whether you want to admit it or not it is having an affect and most likely will further if they stay. A couple dealers that are forum supporters even expressed they felt it wasn't right but you think it has no bearing on BF?

That's going to be a really interesting standard until those same dealers get called out for supporting brands that have questionable ethics or have become popular by being blatantly dishonest. Do you want to go down that road? I don't. Are you going to single those dealers out?

 

[JAM]

"WHERE'S THE LINE DRAWN?"

You tell us Spark. I thought most everyone here was OK with the line we had. You don't allow clones to be advertised, sold, or discussed on the forums. Now we have a forum dealer who has a huge amount of those items as basically it's main offerings. But if we have a problem with that WE have a "double standard"? And there is no difference between clones and liner locks & multitools? That's just not being honest. If it is then why the ban on clones? There was a line. I didn't define it.

"You guys are expecting me to police every dealer member's entire catalog for any possible vague infringement that you guys can't even define."

No we aren't.

 

[WValtakis]

There's a huge difference between a dealer that MAY have some clones that would require you to track them down and @topomart ...a site dedicated ENTIRELY to knockoffs. That's why they immediately set off alarm bells to numerous members.

 

[Sharp & Fiery]

Using that logic, US patent law doesn't apply to China, so too bad about knockoffs made over there.

I agree with this. It is unfortunate. I honestly didn't mean to get on your bad side. I will own the fact that I did not read or know that you posted your stance when I originally posted.

I do enjoy my time here, and have had zero problems or issues since I have been a member. So, if you are ok with it, I would like to step back and just relax and sleep. It’s late here.

Also, I have no problems answering your question about where I stand. But I just need clarification on what the actual question is.

 

[Spark]

You tell us Spark. I thought most everyone here was OK with the line we had. You don't allow clones to be advertised, sold, or discussed on the forums. Now we have a forum dealer who has a huge amount of those items as basically it's main offerings.

They're selling clones on the forums?

No?

Ok then.

There's a huge difference between a dealer that MAY have some clones that would require you to track them down and @topomart ...a site dedicated ENTIRELY to knockoffs. That's why they immediately set off alarm bells to numerous members.

How many knockoffs are you ok with? How about con artists lying about their background to build a following? If a site steals images or text from another dealer, should we also ban them?

 

[JamesBro]

Nah, let me save you the trouble. I don't want you spending any money here anymore, especially if you lack the integrity to stand behind your statements. I laid out my positions on this subject. You then stepped forward and put conditions on your support for the forums. I quoted you directly. That isn't "picking on you" or 'calling you out' or being unfair - you wanted your place in the spotlight so now you are getting one-on-one attention.

When the next member comes forward and says "I can't support BladeForums because [x] company makes an OTF automatic knife that's similar to Microtech's Ultratech or Scarab and [y] dealer member carries it" how do I respond to that? Or a knife with a frame lock similar to the Chris Reeve Sebenza?

You ok with blacklisting most of the knife industry? Where's the line drawn?

...

Dont post much but I think accusing the S&F guy of a lack of integrity is out of line. And as far as where to draw the other line is when a dealer exists ONLY to sell clones.
just my opinion. James

 

[JJ_Colt45]

That's going to be a really interesting standard until those same dealers get called out for supporting brands that have questionable ethics or have become popular by being blatantly dishonest. Do you want to go down that road? I don't. Are you going to single those dealers out?

To respond to your question. I have stated in my previous posts and will again ... we aren't talking about a dealer here that may have a few questionable items on a huge site. We are talking about a dealer here who's entire site is questionable along with there sales and customer service practices. I would definitely put the dealers I spoke of up against this one all day everyday as they take care of there customers and don't try to fleece them and actually care that they give the customer a good product. There is a huge difference in the two I'm not sure why you aren't seeing that.

This is going in circles and no matter how many times it is laid out your response is the same. No one can make you look at it from another view if you don't care to.