1. Click here to enter the drawing for your chance to win an Ontario Knives Spec Plus SP8 Machete Survival Knife & Ka-Bar Dozier Folding Hunter, , Bladeforums.com swag or memberships!

    Be sure to read the rules before entering, then help us decide next week's giveaway by hitting the poll in that thread! Entries close at midnight, Saturday Sept 7!

    Once the entries close, we'll live stream the drawing on Sunday, Sept 8 at 5PM Eastern. Tune in to our YouTube channel TheRealBladeForums for a chance to win bonus prizes!

    Questions? Comments? Post in the discussion thread here

BladeHQ Para 2 exclusive M4 w/ Jade G10

Discussion in 'Spyderco' started by uofaengr, May 13, 2015.

  1. on_the_edge

    on_the_edge Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 31, 2006
    Thanks! :thumbup:
     
  2. k_ozdragon

    k_ozdragon

    291
    Feb 14, 2015
    Nice wicked edge in the background there ;). Will have to post how well the m4 handles the 15deg bevel. I'm tempted to go lower than my usual 19deg on m4, but it works so well it's hard to switch. Was thinking I wouldn't go lower than 17deg for sure though, so would be curious to know how well 15deg holds up. M4 is probably my favorite steel (probably meaning definitely) because it's just so damn tough, wear resistant, and sharp as hell. So if it doesn't take 15deg well, then nothing will.

    Sent from my 2PS64 using Tapatalk
     
  3. Red House

    Red House

    168
    May 1, 2016
    I have one of his titanium deep carry clips on a standard black PM2. He does nice work.
     
  4. aquaman67

    aquaman67

    Jan 27, 2012
    Now you've got me thinking.

    I usually / always reprofile every knife to 18 DPS with a Wicked Edge and then use the 40* side of the Sharpmaker for a microbevel and easy touchups.

    With this knife I may try 14 or even 13 DPS and use the 30* side of the Sharpmaker.

    Yesterday was the first time I really used mine. I volunteered at a mobile food pantry. We had to cut the wrap off many pallets of food. I'm pretty amazed how sharp this knife came out of the box. I never cut myself but I had a pretty close call just by barely brushing the blade.
     
  5. k_ozdragon

    k_ozdragon

    291
    Feb 14, 2015
    Micro bevels make the edge stronger and less likely to roll, but they also make the edge cut at that degree. The thin secondary bevel cuts down on drag, but doesn't affect what the edge is doing. That's why I prefer a flat grind. I only add a microbevel if the edge isn't holding as well as I had hoped in the thinner angle, and when I retouch the blade I only go a hair over the original grind to preserve the fine grit I use on my edges (usually mirror edge)

    Sent from my 2PS64 using Tapatalk
     
  6. Brock O Lee

    Brock O Lee

    819
    Jun 29, 2011
    More than 50% of my Spyderco's are convexed at far less than 13 dps with a 15 dps micro bevel, and they hold up well for light EDC.

    I estimate this Stretch to be 8-10dps, with a 15dps micro. It is one of my favorite slicers. I avoid hard contacts, but I haven't seen it chip yet in more than a year with typical light use.
    [​IMG]

    M4 can also play on this level. This is the M4 Military, also convexed, but not quite as thin as the Stretch, also have a 15dps micro. No durability issues yet in the last 2 years, but yes I do not cut through food cans and car bonnets. Food, cardboard, packaging, no problem.

    [​IMG]

    For some reason I do not see anyone running convexes, and I'm not sure why? I think it is brilliant. It eliminates the wide shoulders of the bevel, and lets the blade slide through the material you are cutting with noticeably less force. At 40 deg incl angles I really feel people are wasting steel performance, unless off course they need that kind of uber durability. I think many forumites over estimate the durability they need, and are too conservative with angles. Thin edges have really changed my perspective on "effortless" cutting! Try it, it is awesome! :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2016
  7. k_ozdragon

    k_ozdragon

    291
    Feb 14, 2015
    So basically on both those knives you're pretty much running a full flat grind with small microbevel? Because the primary grinds are generally at the angles you specified on those two knives, and even by looking at them they look full flat with a small bevel at the end. I really like full flat grinds. I've considered running a few but haven't. If I could get a true convex I'd run one, but they're really difficult to get, plus I don't think they benefit on such a small bevel. I've seen studies that show a true convex causes cutting material to pull away from the edge rather than slide up it; which means only the very cutting edge is in contact with the material rather than the entire sides of the blade. This is what makes katana so devastating.

    Sent from my 2PS64 using Tapatalk
     
  8. Brock O Lee

    Brock O Lee

    819
    Jun 29, 2011
    Yes... A full height flat convex would approximate a zero-grind (or "full flat grind" if I understand you correctly). The micro bevel gives the strength and durability, and is quick and easy to sharpen. These are not quite as thin as zero-grinds, but they are significantly thinner than factory.

    The point I try to make is that CPM-M4 is more than capable to support edges significantly thinner than the 15-20 dps factory bevels. You have to take your typical use into account at lower angles, because you can obviously drop the angle too low, or regrind the primary too thin, and risk a big chip in the blade in a moment of ham-fistedness. In my experience a 15 dps bevel is plenty strong enough for how I use my pocket knives. In fact a 15 dps micro on a thin convex is strong enough that I never see chipping, and this is on steels like Superblue, M390, S30V, 20CP, S110V. Many of these steels are not known for toughness, but they are strong enough and tough enough...

    The benefit is significantly improved cutting ability (less force required to cut), and it is quick to sharpen because the micro bevel is so small. They also seem to stay sharp longer. I understand this is because you need less force to push the edge through whatever you are cutting, so you have less degradation at the edge compared to a blade with a thick shoulder.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2016
  9. wire edge

    wire edge Gold Member Gold Member

    Nov 6, 2001
    I really like the type of edge you're using. The only reason I don't do that to mine is lack of skill/confidence. The best cutting knives I've used were from ABS guys, Terry Primos comes to mind. A full flat with the edge gently convened to a near zero. An absolute joy to use and keep sharp!
     
  10. skivic

    skivic Gold Member Gold Member

    879
    Oct 8, 2012
    Got some better light! Love how it came out, Rit navy blue for 18 mins and decided to keep at factory edge for now but cleaned up on my wicked edge [​IMG]


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  11. aquaman67

    aquaman67

    Jan 27, 2012
    That does look awesome.

    I wanted to try blue but I was afraid blue + yellow would make green. I do like green too though.

    I stumbled upon someone who dyed Jade G-10 orange by using Golden Yellow Rit dye so that's what I went with. (Mine is a few pages back)

    I'm surprised yours only took 18 minutes. At 15 minutes mine hadn't changed at all. Mine took and hour and a half. I used one pack of dye and 1/4 cup of vinegar.
     
  12. Brock O Lee

    Brock O Lee

    819
    Jun 29, 2011
    Thanks! You should try it one day on an inexpensive folder or paring knife, then use it side-by-side with other conventional v-edges... :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2016
  13. k_ozdragon

    k_ozdragon

    291
    Feb 14, 2015
    That looks a lot better in the light skivic. Lol is that a scion you're driving? It's def a Toyota; I drive an '06 Scion ;).
    Anyways, I suppose if you really think about it, lower angles make sense. All the full flat grinds (a zero grind is a knife with no secondary grind and no bevel. Basically, a zero grind starts at the spine and goes all the way to the cutting edge) I've ever owned have been old school carbon steels (1095, 440, etc...) which are nowhere near as strong as modern carbide steels. I tell customers this all the time when they buy a knife, "The usual 40-46deg inclusive angle is a catch-all for companies. The majority of users don't need it at all, but a few will. So basically, for those few the edge works great, and for the rest of us it works - but certainly not near as well as it should. Of course many people don't know this, thus it is the "happy medium" for everyone. If you really want this thing to cut properly, let me take it down to 38deg inclusive at 1000 grit. This will make it 19 per side, and 1k grit gives enough teeth to bite, but not enough to drag." Everyone I've redone their knives for have absolutely loved it. Spyderco knows this, which is why they use slim angles on their stuff. Benchmade, ZT, etc... always stick to their happy medium of 23deg per side. Spyderco really is a knife lover's company. They put in the research and make the changes that other companies are so afraid to do. If they would just change their warranty to match Benchmade's they would sell way more than them. For many customers I help, that lack of a "will fix anything - ANYTHING!" warranty is the line that divides Benchmade from Spyderco when it comes time to buy.

    Sent from my 2PS64 using Tapatalk
     
  14. skivic

    skivic Gold Member Gold Member

    879
    Oct 8, 2012
    Nope sorry 2008 Civic SI Sedan in White lol my commuter car
     
  15. k_ozdragon

    k_ozdragon

    291
    Feb 14, 2015
    Really? All the knobs are the same, especially the door buttons for window control and lock :)

    Sent from my 2PS64 using Tapatalk
     
  16. ni1s

    ni1s

    683
    Feb 10, 2014
    Finally it arrived all the way over in Sweden! I must say I like the scales much better than I thought I would.

    [​IMG]
     
  17. aquaman67

    aquaman67

    Jan 27, 2012
    Ok.

    So not being able to leave well enough alone.

    I've gone from orange-ish

    [​IMG]

    To orange orange

    [​IMG]


    There was nothing wrong with the tangerine orange. It just wasn't exactly what I was looking for. (I used one dry box of Golden Yellow Rit dye)

    So I got to thinking. Why can't I make orange scales more orange?

    So I bought two boxes of Sunshine Orange and re-cooked my scales. Now I'm happy.
     
  18. k_ozdragon

    k_ozdragon

    291
    Feb 14, 2015
    Are you Sunshine Orange happy?

    Sent from my 2PS64 using Tapatalk
     
  19. skivic

    skivic Gold Member Gold Member

    879
    Oct 8, 2012
    love it!!
     
  20. blade man

    blade man

    Jan 8, 2001
    Orange you glad you did it? :D
     

Share This Page