Blue Steel vs White Steel

[John79]

Hey everyone, I will (hopefully) be buying a new blade soon. I was looking at this one and I really like it, and yes I realize that the American tanto design is not the most... efficent. http://www.knifecenter.com/kc_new/store_detail.html?s=KT235

That would be the knife.

My question is- What are the main differences and avantages that blue and white steel have over one another? Edge retention? Toughness? ect. Oh yes, and if anyone has any experence with this knife or any from the Kanetsune company, please share it.

Thank you all for your input, God bless.

 

[jimmyjones]

Hitachi white is a 'clean' carbon steel, with just a splash of Mn (0.2% Manganese), Blue is Hienz 57 with a big splash of Tungsten (> 2%), much tougher steel.

I can get white sooooooo incredibly sharp it's scary, no big carbides.


Here's the link to A.G. Russell's steel guide.

http://www.agrussell.com/knife_information/steel_guide/index.html

 

[mete]

That's Mn not Mg !... tungsten forms very wear resistant carbides !

 

[yoda4561]

Hiatchi white is sort of like an ultra clean super-1095. Blue is tougher with more fine carbides for great edge holding, somewhat similar to tool steels like 01 but very different in alloy. Both are usually hardened to around 64 rc, so even the low carbide hitachi white has great edge holding, I've noticed that my white #1 atsu deba is a bit prone to chipping if you're careless when cutting chicken bones, I would expect blue to be a bit more resilient. Sorry i don't have charts and graphs to back this up

 

[jimmyjones]

That's Mn not Mg !... tungsten forms very wear resistant carbides !

Thanks, my fingers don't always pay attention to my brain, specially before my 'first pot a Joe'.

 

[John79]

So blue tends to take a more "toothy" edge and white can take a finer smoother one? Can blue take a wicked sharp edge? Thanks guys.

 

[yoda4561]

Not really, both take extremely fine edges, blue just keeps it a bit longer.

 

[The Mastiff]

composition of white and blue, and yellow steels. Note there are 3 versions of blue, with super blue being the most highly alloyed. I like both steels a lot for slicers. IMO, they're too brittle at around RC64 for chopping. They are both used in good chefs knives BTW. Joe

http://www.paragoncode.com/temp/YSS_HCC_spec.pdf

 

[macgregor22]

The difference is what color packaging they come in.

Thatts how they got their names atleast.

 

[John79]

Why dont American makers use these steels, or if they do, I never hear about it. I know they arent for chopping, but they dont seem too brittle either...

 

[USSR]

From what I've read, the Japanese are very particular about who uses their steels and where. One of the reasons Spyderco's VG-10 and H1 knives are made in Seki is that the companies who produce the steel want to keep production in-country where they can keep an eye on it. If I were a custom knifemaker here in the US, it would be very difficult to get my hands on some H1 stock. That's what I've read, if anybody knows different please chime in as I'm curious about this as well.

 

[Larrin]

Blue is not tougher than white steel, it is more brittle and much more wear resistant. Because of the high carbon in both neither is all that tough though. They are designed purely for cutting performance.

 

[John79]

See now, I'm getting different info here...

Hiatchi white is sort of like an ultra clean super-1095. Blue is tougher with more fine carbides for great edge holding, somewhat similar to tool steels like 01 but very different in alloy. Both are usually hardened to around 64 rc, so even the low carbide hitachi white has great edge holding, I've noticed that my white #1 atsu deba is a bit prone to chipping if you're careless when cutting chicken bones, I would expect blue to be a bit more resilient. Sorry i don't have charts and graphs to back this up

and

Blue is not tougher than white steel, it is more brittle and much more wear resistant. Because of the high carbon in both neither is all that tough though. They are designed purely for cutting performance.

Is blue tougher than white?

 

[yoda4561]

As far as blue steel goes my info is all 2nd hand internet research, but the general concensus I've found is that blue is the tougher steel, though "super blue" with it's very high alloy content may be a bit more brittle.

 

[Larrin]

It is a common misconception that the tungsten adds toughness to the Blue steels. As mete says, the tungsten forms wear resistant carbides and increases the overall carbide volume. The greater carbide volume increases wear resistance and lowers the toughness.

 

[nephildevil]

it so happens earlier today i was also looking at kanetsune knives and wondering the same thing

 

[John79]

Anyone have some talk of Kantsune's general quality?

 

[fujita yuji]

Heat treatment of blue steel is easier compared to white.
In Japan, both are used in welded form, I mean san-mai and so on.

 

[nephildevil]

so for an outdoors knife, blue is better

and for a pure cutter, never prying, hacking or batonning, white is better?

 

[John79]

Seems that with those Tungsten carbides the blue will keep cutting even after its a wee bit dull... I looked and really couldnt find anything, but I would like to know if anyone can vouch for Kanetsune's quality, and share any experences with the knives?
Thanks