Bluing and Bleach

K

kvolle

Joined
Jan 24, 2008
Messages
123
I have a customer that wants something different. I have read quite a few threads on bluing and using bleach to get different patterns. I was thinking this would be very different because I have never done it before and it would be something he would not have seen. at least from me.
Does anyone have pic's of a knife that has under gone this treatment? I want to do it but not sure how it will turn out.
How does everyone apply it and what is the best method?
If this is not something that gets good results, does anyone have any suggestions as to what would be out of the ordinary and unique that I could try?
I know alot of questions.:grumpy:
 
Go to my website, wickellerbe.com . Most that you see that are aged were done done by this method. You will see that some are aged more so than others. You can go from lightly aged, to relic condition. It is controled by time in. For the light age, I leave the blade in for about 3, to 5 minutes, clean up and see if it needs another treatment. If you want relic condition, about 10 minutes. The time in also depends on the steel. Low carb simple steel that might be used as hardware on the knife etches very quickly. Hi-carb 10xx steels are kind of mid range. 01 seems to be a tad slower. This one below went in for two complete treatments of about 4, to 5 minutes each bath. This can also be done with Laurel Mt. cold brown, instead of bleach, but takes a few days instead of a few minutes. Just cold blue it well and submerge in Clorox bleach, or any clorine bleach, but not the scented stuff. The bluing reacts with the clorine in the bleach. The scented stuff does not seem to be as fast.
pennyknife656_640x480.jpg
 
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Here's one that was done with the method you asked about: http://www.bladegallery.com/shopexd.asp?id=85394&photo=2&size=b I used it a bunch of times. I prefer using a wool dauber that is used to apply leather dye. I use the Cold Blue paste. I'll put a dab of the paste on something flat and then put the dauber in it. When I apply it to the blade I dab it on the whole blade. Let it dry and then put it in warm bleach for a few minutes. The warmer the bleach the faster it works so you need to really watch what is going on. Once the blade turns brown while its in the bleach you need to remove the blade and clean it off. You can either go back in the bleach a second time or stop after the first soak. After I'm done with the bleach I'll go over the whole blade with steel wool. If I want to remove more I'll go to 2000 grit paper. You want to make sure its rinsed off real good and put a coat of oil on it after your done and let it remain there for awhile.
 
I don't really consider it bluing, but I antique many of my knives with the above described method. Here are a few shots...

friction4.jpg

wendiburl1.jpg

jacks5.jpg

wendigo-f2.jpg

nt-persian.jpg

gothbowie6.jpg
 
Man that really looks good. Some real nice blades! Can you just put the blade into bleach or do you have to use the cold bluefirst and then into the bleach. I want to try this technique.
 
I have also seen knives that were finished by boiling the blade in a stainless container, filled with bleach.
I believe it was referred to as the poor mans damascus.
The pattern that was left by the process was affected by the angle at which the blade was suspended in the bleach.
I found it quite interesting.

Fred
 
The effect can be from mild to wild dependent on how long one etches and what steel is used as Wick noted...
(the spines on these blades were left forge finished, not just etched)
clorox-etch.jpg


clorox-2.jpg


You can also wrap the blade in a bleach soaked rag for another effect - note the unetched spots where the rag did not touch:
mf-001.jpg


for more examples you may wish to go through the Galleries on www.wrtcleather.com - specifically Frontier Knives & Sheaths and Wild Goo

Can you just put the blade into bleach or do you have to use the cold blue first and then into the bleach
Click to expand...
Yes you can use plain bleach, but it will take hours or days - applying the blue first acts as an accelerant and changes your soak time to minutes...
Caution: Using cold blue and bleach is mixing acid with chlorine - NEVER mix ANY acid based bluing compound directly with the bleach - only coat the blade with blue and even then use all precautions when using this method (a good mask with a chlorine filter is recommended and good ventilation is a must) - the fumes are TOXIC!!!

I have also seen knives that were finished by boiling the blade in a stainless container, filled with bleach
Click to expand...
Yep the House Brothers, Frank and Hershel, famed "period" craftsman, have used that method a lot, but
A) the fumes are REALLY nasty, and
B) using the blue as an accelerant works just as good and a lot faster........

Example of what to expect......
A: straight from a 10-15 minute soak in bleach:
cr-20-iw-003.jpg


B: All cleaned up
cr-20-iw-004.jpg
 
I think I'm going to try that on my WIP recurve. Any suggestions for getting the finest "pattern". As in, opposite of the rag technique?
 
If you were to lightly (and very carefully) hit the flat surfaces w/ an orbital sander or sandblaster...would that affect the pattern? Something to try tomorrow, I think. I'll post pics.
 
Thanks guys. I think this is exactly what I am looking for. I love the fact that you can antique a new blade or create what you call a poor mans damascus. I don't think I will do the PMD because I have done many damascus blades for him in the past but I love the fact that you can do so many things and get so many unique patterns and/or coloration to the blade just by using cold blue and bleech. I can't wait to finish this blade so I can try this out.
One more question, If I don't like the coloration or pattern that I get with one of these methods is it easily removed to try again? I know how to remove cold blue but how does the bleech effect the surface of the blade and can it be removed after applying this method. Thanks in advance.
 
LRB said:
Go to my website, wickellerbe.com . Most that you see that are aged were done done by this method. You will see that some are aged more so than others. You can go from lightly aged, to relic condition. It is controled by time in. For the light age, I leave the blade in for about 3, to 5 minutes, clean up and see if it needs another treatment. If you want relic condition, about 10 minutes. The time in also depends on the steel. Low carb simple steel that might be used as hardware on the knife etches very quickly. Hi-carb 10xx steels are kind of mid range. 01 seems to be a tad slower. This one below went in for two complete treatments of about 4, to 5 minutes each bath. This can also be done with Laurel Mt. cold brown, instead of bleach, but takes a few days instead of a few minutes. Just cold blue it well and submerge in Clorox bleach, or any clorine bleach, but not the scented stuff. The bluing reacts with the clorine in the bleach. The scented stuff does not seem to be as fast.
pennyknife656_640x480.jpg
Click to expand...


Ok. I am going to be redundant and ask the same question but directly to you Mr. Ellerbe. In looking at your website I understand what you mean now by antiquing with this method. It looks like the etching has caused some pitting in the blade or atleast has given the perception of pitting, which by the way I love. But my question is if I employ this method and it doesn't turn out to look like the great examples that you have, can I remove and try again, or is it a one shot deal and your left with what you have?
I have tried a lot of the methods that the members employ and have had great results and not so great results. Usually do to user error. :eek:

Nothing worse than spending days on fit and finish and screw it up right at the end. It's like sticking a needle in your eye and then rinsing it out with muratic acid. Ok I guess thats a little excessive but it really burns my hide non the less.:grumpy:
 
how do u clean the blades or hawk heads chuck?.....do u just rub it with like steel wool or do u have to grind that out.....do u do something to stop the affect of the bleach?....like neutralize it or something?.....thanks for any further explanation....pretty cool.....ryan
 
here are a couple I made using basicly the same method, the only difference is I use ferric cloride instead of the cold blue. I dunk the blades in ferric cloride, then put them in the container of bleach. The results are the same, as the ferric does the same thing as the cold blue,which is to activate the bleach.
DSC02733.jpg

DSC02731.jpg
 
Wow, cool stuff! Thanks for the explaination and the safety heads up! Next knife will get the treatment. I have just the blade in 1095 ready for heat treat. Once the rain stops I can do the heat treat, I use a forge outside for HT.
 
You gents are basically reinventing "browning", (ie : the "Brown Bess" musket) which was used on firearms for centuries. Urine was the main ingredient back then.

Use a slightly different chemical solution, and you get what gunsmiths know as "rust blueing".

Either way, the final effect can vary by the alloy and polish of the steel, and by the method used to card off the rust. (brass scraper, steel wool, buffing wheel, etc...)

And yes, the fumes from adding an acid like cold blue to bleach is toxic.....

TR Graham
The Glocksmith
 
I have seen in past posts using this method that BC Superblue is used. It appears that some folks in this post use other blues to include the paste blue. Is there much of a difference with the use of the various types of blues. Have not been able to find the BC Superblue here in my area .

Jerry
 
nthe10ring said:
I have seen in past posts using this method that BC Superblue is used. It appears that some folks in this post use other blues to include the paste blue. Is there much of a difference with the use of the various types of blues. Have not been able to find the BC Superblue here in my area .

Jerry
Click to expand...

Jerry do you have a Dick's sporting goods in your town? That is where I get mine. Also if you have a gun dealer or shop in your town they can get it for you. I couldn't find Brownells Gun Kote anywhere and I was having H&K MP5 worked on and asked the gunsmith where he gets his and he sold me the stuff at his cost. If they don't sell it they can tell you where they get it.
 
nthe10ring said:
I have seen in past posts using this method that BC Superblue is used. It appears that some folks in this post use other blues to include the paste blue. Is there much of a difference with the use of the various types of blues. Have not been able to find the BC Superblue here in my area .

Jerry
Click to expand...

Jerry, there is one in Fayetteville. Go on line and search Dick's sporting goods store locator. go to search by state and it will give you the exact location and phone number so you can call ahead and make sure they carry it. If not I know they can order it in for you.
 
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