Review BM Bailout design critique (pre-release)

[stevejams]

Aileron, SOCP Folder, 756MPR, Gold Class Bugout, Turrett, to name a few.

Completed nailed it. I love a lot of bm’s stuff but my goodness what strange terrible ideas. ESPECIALLY the 756. I’ve never handled a gold class bugout but I could never justify spending the money on any gold class knife

 

[SpyderPhreak]

Hey, at least it's not yet another BM in S30V... Right?

(but then they killed it with the tanto point )

 

[dano]

Completed nailed it. I love a lot of bm’s stuff but my goodness what strange terrible ideas. ESPECIALLY the 756. I’ve never handled a gold class bugout but I could never justify spending the money on any gold class knife

What, specifically, besides personal opinion and internet anecdotes, qualifies these models as "Failures"? Sales numbers? Usage failures?

 

[DrRollinstein]

What, specifically, besides personal opinion and internet anecdotes, qualifies these models as "Failures"? Sales numbers? Usage failures?

That's all they have. I've personally seen way more gold bugouts in the wild then I ever expected. There isn't really any way for them to know how well those knives have done.

 

[Cypress]

What, specifically, besides personal opinion and internet anecdotes, qualifies these models as "Failures"? Sales numbers? Usage failures?

If Benchmade discontinued the model less than a year after it was introduced, that’s a failure. If you read the product release threads and see all of the replies mocking the design or materials, that’s a failure. The failure of a product is usually based on the opinions of the masses, so to say “that’s all we have” is pretty ignorant of the market. The opinions of a consumer base is literally the only thing driving sales of any product.

Very few of us work for Benchmade, so you’ll have to find the actual numbers from one of them.

 

[marrenmiller]

Fellow engineer here. I fully agree with you, OP. I think saying 3V is only really beneficial in a chopper design is silliness. It's a tough steel, which means it's resistant to fracture.

Using 3V, a thin edge and blade can be made tough while still cutting well, meaning your edge is less likely to chip out if you're cutting and contact metal, glass, or concrete, any of which are likely to happen if you're using the knife in first responder/military applications. The standard bugout can absolutely be used hard enough as a cutting tool to damage its edge without deforming the pill liners or lock, or somehow damaging the handles. I've damaged enough edges just by dropping them or contacting hard materials by accident that this looks very appealing to me.

The handles flexing a bit doesn't make a damned bit of difference. I'd like to see someone break a Spyderco salt and tell me that the unlined scales weren't strong enough.

Also hilarious is to see criticism of the aluminum pommel, as if aluminum somehow isn't hard enough to act as a blunt force object for the majority of cases where you'd use it. I'm sure everyone complaining would rather see a steel pommel that ruins the balance and adds substantially to the weight of the knife...

 

[Filthyj24]

I'll be buying one. Side note...How about an Altitude in 3V? I managed to chip my blade yesterday.

 

[dano]

If Benchmade discontinued the model less than a year after it was introduced, that’s a failure. If you read the product release threads and see all of the replies mocking the design or materials, that’s a failure. The failure of a product is usually based on the opinions of the masses, so to say “that’s all we have” is pretty ignorant of the market. The opinions of a consumer base is literally the only thing driving sales of any product.

Very few of us work for Benchmade, so you’ll have to find the actual numbers from one of them.

So, internet scuttlebutt....opinion, anecdotes, no actual reasons...

 

[Knicked Digits]

You’re all missing the point of the tanto in 3v. Wild banana bunches. If they’ve evolved and adapted to the vg10 and super steel rich environment of pockets knives then we’ve gotta got back with something they don’t see very much.

Viva la résistance!!

 

[Silent H]

Fellow engineer here. I fully agree with you, OP. I think saying 3V is only really beneficial in a chopper design is silliness. It's a tough steel, which means it's resistant to fracture.

Using 3V, a thin edge and blade can be made tough while still cutting well, meaning your edge is less likely to chip out if you're cutting and contact metal, glass, or concrete, any of which are likely to happen if you're using the knife in first responder/military applications. The standard bugout can absolutely be used hard enough as a cutting tool to damage its edge without deforming the pill liners or lock, or somehow damaging the handles. I've damaged enough edges just by dropping them or contacting hard materials by accident that this looks very appealing to me.

The handles flexing a bit doesn't make a damned bit of difference. I'd like to see someone break a Spyderco salt and tell me that the unlined scales weren't strong enough.

Also hilarious is to see criticism of the aluminum pommel, as if aluminum somehow isn't hard enough to act as a blunt force object for the majority of cases where you'd use it. I'm sure everyone complaining would rather see a steel pommel that ruins the balance and adds substantially to the weight of the knife...

Stop making sense, this is the internet.

But seriously, you're 100% right in this post. Tough steels are great in large fixed blades, but also allow for edge stability on thinner blades. I bet if you did the same things with both the Bailout and Bugout, there would be a lot more chipping on the Bugout's S30V blade than on the Bailout's 3V blade.

Also, I guess Benchmade is failing because someone doesn't like their designs? I don't know, that's news to me, and probably to them too...

 

[Darkera]

When I read posts here I often think, "jeez with fans like this who needs detractors" Spyderco could release a knife designed by a random image generator and fans would love it, whereas Benchmade is becoming the brand people love to hate.

Their recent releases generally don't appeal to me at all, although I was pleased to see the 365 and hope they expand on this idea, eg both plain and serrated blades on a Bugout. Or put two different supersteel blades on one knife to satisfy the steelnerds? Anyway, I don't consider my tastes to be the litmus test for success: I have no interest in virtually all Black class knives, wouldn't buy a tanto, prefer conservative/gentleman designs, am not obsessed with the next best steel, hate carbon fiber etc. Clearly some of my tastes fall into the minority and I'm okay with that. I likely won't be buying a new Benchmade model this year and that's fine too; I don't feel slighted by their offerings and they haven't lost a loyal customer.

Furthermore if Benchmade simply released the same old models with upgraded steels, people would loudly complain that Benchmade has run out of ideas etc. They came out with some different designs and maybe they'll stick or maybe not, but the point is they tried some new things. Spyderco does this all the time, the only differences being they release many more new designs from their foreign manufacturers and they can fall back on sprint runs to keep the compulsive knife-buyer satisfied.

I really like my Spyderco Mantra, which is essentially a Delica with upgraded steel, a flipper, nice titanium handle, and integral lock. They did a great job on this one. It would be cool if Benchmade did the same sort of treatment on some of their popular models - a sleek upgrade and re-imagining not just the kitchen sink Gold class approach. Not just titanium or carbon fiber or G-10 variants either, but some nice native N. American wood scales.

 

[Cypress]

So, internet scuttlebutt....opinion, anecdotes, no actual reasons...

If you don't think "consumer opinion" is the most valid reason there is for the success of a product, you have no sense of sales, marketing, or business.

 

[Lapedog]

I'll be buying one. Side note...How about an Altitude in 3V? I managed to chip my blade yesterday.

That’s why I’ll be getting a Bailout and having CF scales made for it. I have wanted a 940-1 but didn’t want the s90v.

This will be my lightweight linerless axis lock knife instead. Unless I don’t like the bugout I’m having cf scales thrown on as we speak the bailout with cf scales is pretty much a for sure thing.

 

[Silent H]

If you don't think "consumer opinion" is the most valid reason there is for the success of a product, you have no sense of sales, marketing, or business.

I think you're confusing your opinion and "consumer opinion." Then again I know nothing of sales, marketing or business.

Aileron, SOCP Folder, 756MPR, Gold Class Bugout, Turrett

Yes, the aileron had some silly marketing, but I've heard from people that own it (both on the forums and in person) that it's actually a nice knife. Then again, that's just anecdotal evidence.
The SOCP folder was pulled from the market, and Benchmade reps have said it's being re-designed. So, I'd say your right in calling that one a failure.
The 756 mPR is an odd knife, but ZT just released the 0022, another micro framelock flipper, so there must be some demand for that niche.
The gold class Bugout is a gold class, they're certainly not for everyone, and they've barely even hit the shelves.
I didn't even realize the Turret was shipping from dealers already, but it appears to have good reviews so far.

Clearly, you have spoken, and the Bailout is a failure before it has even left the factory. However I'll be picking one up, because I'm excited for a thin folder with an extremely tough steel that will resist chipping, but, that's just like, my opinion, man.

 

[Rykjeklut]

I still like the design of it, as I'm a fan of tantos.
Might pick one up, depends on local pricing.

 

[jazub]

Just got to Manila on a stopover after a couple of weeks in China and saw this release. My travel knife was a Victorinox Compact which mainly opened bottle tops but also cut some foods. After falling goofily in love with the Bugout in the last 4 months (have 2 now), this 537 looks awesome. The lanyard loop will open many beers for me. When dis getting dropped??

 

[colin.p]

When I read posts here I often think, "jeez with fans like this who needs detractors" Spyderco could release a knife designed by a random image generator and fans would love it, whereas Benchmade is becoming the brand people love to hate.

Their recent releases generally don't appeal to me at all, although I was pleased to see the 365 and hope they expand on this idea, eg both plain and serrated blades on a Bugout. Or put two different supersteel blades on one knife to satisfy the steelnerds? Anyway, I don't consider my tastes to be the litmus test for success: I have no interest in virtually all Black class knives, wouldn't buy a tanto, prefer conservative/gentleman designs, am not obsessed with the next best steel, hate carbon fiber etc. Clearly some of my tastes fall into the minority and I'm okay with that. I likely won't be buying a new Benchmade model this year and that's fine too; I don't feel slighted by their offerings and they haven't lost a loyal customer.

Furthermore if Benchmade simply released the same old models with upgraded steels, people would loudly complain that Benchmade has run out of ideas etc. They came out with some different designs and maybe they'll stick or maybe not, but the point is they tried some new things. Spyderco does this all the time, the only differences being they release many more new designs from their foreign manufacturers and they can fall back on sprint runs to keep the compulsive knife-buyer satisfied.

I really like my Spyderco Mantra, which is essentially a Delica with upgraded steel, a flipper, nice titanium handle, and integral lock. They did a great job on this one. It would be cool if Benchmade did the same sort of treatment on some of their popular models - a sleek upgrade and re-imagining not just the kitchen sink Gold class approach. Not just titanium or carbon fiber or G-10 variants either, but some nice native N. American wood scales.

You beat me to it. My sentiments exactly.

 

[Mo2]

4v, M4, cruewear etc would have been more idea than 3v. But keep trying.

Just cause they can do it and it's rare to see on a folder, are the reasons why they choose 3v. More sales. prove me wrong. It's all marketing here. Not knife maker knowledge in choosing the right materials and design for the knifes function.

If you guys just said I'm buying it cause it's different, or cause 3v is rare in folders etc and Benchmade didn't make up the stupid video of operators using it for scraping sidewalks I'd say there's zero issues here. But lololol it's comical. Makes so little sense.
BM Just need to say we're making this combo for sales. Nothing more. Stop pretending it's something it's not and will never be.

 

[dano]

If you don't think "consumer opinion" is the most valid reason there is for the success of a product, you have no sense of sales, marketing, or business.

Using your logic, then, CRKT, Microtech, Strider (the two new companies), Gerber, etc would be out of business, because of the myopic view of "Product release threads" etc.

 

[Darkera]

4v, M4, cruewear etc would have been more idea than 3v. But keep trying.

Just cause they can do it and it's rare to see on a folder, are the reasons why they choose 3v. More sales. prove me wrong. It's all marketing here. Not knife maker knowledge in choosing the right materials and design for the knifes function.

If you guys just said I'm buying it cause it's different, or cause 3v is rare in folders etc and Benchmade didn't make up the stupid video of operators using it for scraping sidewalks I'd say there's zero issues here. But lololol it's comical. Makes so little sense.
BM Just need to say we're making this combo for sales. Nothing more. Stop pretending it's something it's not and will never be.

What exactly is the problem here? Spyderco does sprint runs with exotic steels because people want to try something novel. Also, I'm not sure why you think Benchmade would release a knife for anything but sales, it's sort of the nature of business.