BM Mini Skirmish Washers

longbeachguy

longbeachguy

Joined
Oct 11, 2005
Messages
2,533
Does anyone know what the washers are made of in the Mini Skirmish?

I haven't taken it apart (wouldn't I void the warranty if I did?) but they appear white in color so I assume they're not bronze, unless they're coated or something.

The main reason I want to know is, I finally figured out what I like least about this knife, and I think it may have to do with the washers. The issue is, when you tighten the torque screw to where the blade is centerd in the handle, the action becomes impossibly stiff. When you loosen the torque screw to where the action is fluid, you get blade rub against the handle slab because the frame lock pushes the blade over. There's a very small range of torsion where the blade doesn't rub and the action is loose enough, but the blade doesn't center, and the knife won't maintain this torsion level i.e. with use the torsion screw loosens and pretty soon you have blade rub.

Does anyone know if this problem (which seems to be inherent to the design and not an isolated defect) can be fixed by substituting bronze washers, or by some other means?
 
it may be inherent to the design but my mini is dead on centered and the action is smooth as silk. send it back and let them fix it.

ken
 
My washers in my full size are brass/bronze, my first one, production run was perfect. My second one, wasn't bad really, I gave it to a friend of mine that has never carried a decent knife. My third one is the black coated blade and it rubbed when I got it. I machined a slightly thicker washer to take care of the issue, I carry it almost daily.
 
longbeachguy said:
The main reason I want to know is, I finally figured out what I like least about this knife, and I think it may have to do with the washers. The issue is, when you tighten the torque screw to where the blade is centerd in the handle, the action becomes impossibly stiff. When you loosen the torque screw to where the action is fluid, you get blade rub against the handle slab because the frame lock pushes the blade over. There's a very small range of torsion where the blade doesn't rub and the action is loose enough, but the blade doesn't center, and the knife won't maintain this torsion level i.e. with use the torsion screw loosens and pretty soon you have blade rub.

Does anyone know if this problem (which seems to be inherent to the design and not an isolated defect) can be fixed by substituting bronze washers, or by some other means?
Click to expand...

My 630 had that problem. It used PB washers, so I don't think the washer material is an issue.The only way to really correct it is to Loctite the pivot screw into place.
 
Wade F, a Double-Platinum member on this forum, told me that the washers on his mini-Skirmish are definitely not made out of bronze. And yes, he did encounter the same problem that you did. As far as I know, he sent it back and got a replacement mini-skirmish that he's happy with.
 
Double-Platinum! LOL! :)

My washers are black. I am used to the PB washers being bronze in color. If they are PB, then maybe they are coated with something? I figured they were some kind of nylon.

My replacement still has a slight problem with the blade hitting and chipping against the hour glass spacer, but it's very minor. I'll have to see how it goes and I can always send it to Benchmade if it becomes to much of a problem.
 
I'm pretty sure the skirmish and mini-skirmish washers are made of nylotron which is a dark color. PB washers are bronze in color.
 
The 635 has synthetic washers either teflon or Nyl. I had some warranty work done on mine but when it went back I asked them to replace the washers with Ph. Bronze. I have been very happy with the new washers.
 
WadeF said:
Double-Platinum! LOL! :)

My washers are black. I am used to the PB washers being bronze in color. If they are PB, then maybe they are coated with something? I figured they were some kind of nylon.

My replacement still has a slight problem with the blade hitting and chipping against the hour glass spacer, but it's very minor. I'll have to see how it goes and I can always send it to Benchmade if it becomes to much of a problem.
Click to expand...

Greetings WadeF, I could have sworn that was the term you used. Unfortunately, my comp is either acting up or NG is running a bit slow right now. So, I can't track down your exact post.;) (Having a great memory comes in handy, sometimes). :D

I'm surprised you're still having problems with the mini-skirmish. But it's good to hear that the problem is a minor one.
 
The washer s are PB. You have to adjust the tension screw just right so that it will be smooth but still have no blade play.
 
I was under the impression that the washers in the Skirmish (630) are phosphor bronze.

And the washers in the Mini-Skirmish are nitrolon plastic (or some such).

You can get the redish, super thin washers and use them to shim over the blade, or get some bronze washers (which won't deflect as much).

I've observed that on some knives, the lock (frame locks are more prone) will cause the blade deflect over when in the closed position.

I wish I had available a multi-mill or lathe, then I could machine my own when the problem occurs. Or, if companies would simply offer them or state the correct size to get (make life easier).
 
orthogonal1 said:
I was under the impression that the washers in the Skirmish (630) are phosphor bronze.

And the washers in the Mini-Skirmish are nitrolon plastic (or some such)./QUOTE]

I'll bet you are right. I have knives with pb washers, and there seems to be a big difference. Plus the fact that these washers are white certainly argues against them being pb.

Well, ain't that a kick in the pants...why on earth would they make the Skirmish with pb and the mini with plastic washers? Even though the mini is a little less expensive, I think the logical assumption people (like me) make is this this is simply because it's smaller. I don't think anyone would assume they're getting a lower grade knife by buying the Mini. Even if they had been the same price I would have preferred the Mini, since I personally don't have a need to carry around a machete in my pocket. The Mini is plenty of knife.

I'm definitely going to write BM about this and specifically ask that the washers be replaced with pb ones. I'll post with the outcome.

Thanks you guys!
Click to expand...
 
If they are white they are nylon. If black or dark charcoal gray in color they are the nylatron washers that are said to be a little more durable. If they are phosphorus bronze they will have a copper color to them. I consider the PB washers to be the best, and the nylatron second. I like the Nylatron, don't get me wrong, they just don't seem to be available in as many thicknesses and diameters as the PB ones are.

I was not aware that it was going to void the warranty to take the blade out of a BM knife to clean it. That doesn't sound right to me. So is every soldier in Iraq that drops his BM in the sand supposed to mail his knife back to BM for a cleaning? I don' t think that is the case. There are times when you drop your knife or get crud it from, blood or sand or dirt when a thourough cleaning simply has to be done. If BM is that picky I'd be surprised. They should not expect you to pay to send it to them for a chore like that that anyone that isn't all thumbs can do themselves and do correctly.

If the washers bug you take them out and use a digital caliper to find out the thickness of them as well as the diameter of the pivot hole and replace them with same thickness and hole size of a different material. Thats what I'd do.

STR
 
Thanks STR, I think I'll do that. I'd heard about people voiding their benchmade warranty by taking apart their axis locks, but you're probably right, especially with a frame lock. I have the warranty paperwork, I'll just read it.

I sure am benefitting from your advice this weekend. Thanks again for turning me on to the HK 34.

Regards,

Jim
 
I just broke it down, cleaned and lubricated it with White Lightning. That seems to have improved the situation somewhat.

For the record, the washers are charcoal gray, not white and therefore most likely Nylatron. That at least is a relief. I'm still going to look for some other washers that are at least a tad thicker, to give the blade more clearance from the handle, due to the deflection issue.

Thanks again, everyone.

Jim
 
Well, in my mind taking a knife apart and removing the blade or adjusting the pivot are two entirely different things. It puzzles me why a company would put a take apart knife together and then tell you it voids the warranty if you take it apart. If they want it left together they should pin it IMO. To me an all screw construction is appealing just because of the ability to take it apart or get into it. I do know BM doesn't allow it to be taken apart but the blade coming out doesn't seem to me that it should be enough to void the warranty.

Before I did anything to it I'd probably place a call to BM tomorrow when they open up for business and run it by a rep there. I'd like to hear what they tell you so we can make it public knowledge.

STR
 
WadeF said:
Double-Platinum! LOL! :)

My washers are black. I am used to the PB washers being bronze in color. If they are PB, then maybe they are coated with something? I figured they were some kind of nylon.

My replacement still has a slight problem with the blade hitting and chipping against the hour glass spacer, but it's very minor. I'll have to see how it goes and I can always send it to Benchmade if it becomes to much of a problem.
Click to expand...

Ah, my apologies to you WadeF. Turns out you actually said you're on your 2nd Platinum membership. (That's right; I'm so HardCore, I'm Man enough to apologize when I make a mistake).:D

But how is the lock-mechanism holding up?
 
With the PB washers, a thicker one may not be needed due to the less deflection issue.

I wondered why BM went synthetic with the Mini, but I'm not the economist (yeah, I know pennies add up).

STR, where are you getting the plethora of sized washers from? I've searched the usual sites, but usually I find washers with clearance issues. I end up searching electrical supply stores and such.
 
I've bought the Nylotron from Texas Knifemakers. They have 1/4" Outside Diameter with a 1/8" hole, 1/2" OD with a 7/32 hole and and 1/2" OD with a 3/16" hole. As I recall these are all the same thickness which I think is .017 to .020 because they do vary.

For PB (phosphorus bronze.)

Texas knifemaker sells them in 3/16 hole size and 5/32 hole size in .020 thickness and they can vary also but not by as much. .019 to .020 thick each is most often the case.

Knife and gun finishing supplies sells PB washers in 1/8" hole and 3/16" hole sizes .005 thick. (varies slightly by .001 or so.) They also have the teflon washers in both sized holes in .010 thickness.

I have others in PB for 3/16" and 5/32" hole in thicknesses from .005, .010, .015 and .020 from knife kits also.These are available in OD from .275 to .500 as I recall. I think the ones I use the most are .330. They also have several nylon washers for various sizes of pivot holes but they are all .015 in thickness.

You can get precison cut folder washers from Sheffield in two diameter sizes 1/8 and 3/16". The outer diameters range from 5/16 to 7/16. Or you can buy a PB sheet .005 thick in a 12" x 12" size and just make your own. I believe they also sell sheets of the nylon and teflon materials too and copper sheets in a .002 and .003 thickness, stainless sheets and washers as well as some various odd ball thickness washers in all materials you rarely see anyplace else. Stuff in thicknesses like .012 and other weird ones. Just call and ask him if he has what it is you want. He may even have some old stock he no longer lists.

Hope that helps.

STR
 
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