Bolw torch hardening?

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Oct 31, 2003
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I just know this is going to open up a can of worms but here it goes.

I have heard that you can harden a blade using a blow torch. Now I understand that doing it this way will not yield maximum results. The item I want to harden is only a couple of inches and it's only use is for combat. Thus, it doesn't need to break bricks or chop metal. It as meant to use on soft targets (ie. human flesh). It also is not meant to be sharpened. The blade, if you could call it that, is more like a claw. It's meant for ripping.

Now I know what you are thinking. NO I am not some psycho trying to build something to go on a serial killing spree. What I am trying to do is bring back a weapon design that isn't being made any more. My instructor and friend developed a design based on our training. My friend then began to creat them. Unfortunately he has , for personal reasons, decided not to make any weapons anymore period.

So now I am trying to bring it back but, unlike my friend, I do not have $30,000 worth of equip yet. Now I do have the equip. for the stock removal, etc.. but no oven. What can I say. We teach people this style of warcraft, produce dvd's on it, and it would shure be nice to actually have the best designed weapon to go along with it.

Is the blow torch method good enough?

Thanks for any help.
 
Tyrkon, first of all welcome to the forum! Second of all in the upper right hand corner there is a search button that will direct you to many threads on how to make a cheap oven...built mine with everything including the gas system for under $100. The search button will also get you to the right threads tapping all the incredable experts knowledge on all subjects on this forum.

Thirdly, especially for a small item like you are talking about I see no reason a tourch would not do as good a job as an oven. Would not try it with a long knife or sword but for a couple of inches of steel should be no problem. Make sure you post pics!
 
My two cents:

If you are going to use the weapon for personal use, then I'd say the blowtorch will work adequately enough. If you intend to market the weapons, knowledgeable customers will want to know how the blades are hardened. There are always commercial heat treaters who will happily harden and temper batches of blades for you, and the price is surprisingly low.
 
Blow torch ? I haven't seen one of those for years. Do you really mean propane torch ( not suitable for hardening a knife) or an oxy-acetylene torch.The o-a torch is used by some to differentially harden blades.Learn something about metallurgy first.
 
Blow torch ? I haven't seen one of those for years.

Thanks Mete...I assumed he meant an O/A torch. I have gotten a blade up to non-magnetic with a propane tourch using Mapp gas.
 
Yep, I've got lots to learn. I know how to use them, but making them ....Thanks again. I'll look at the tutorials here.
 
Two propane torches are pretty serviceable for small knives. If you have some O1, just try it. hold it in there, test it with a magnet, when it goes non-magnetic, hold in a little longer, then put it directly into some olive oil or left over lard. Do this where a grease fire won't be a big deal. When making knives it isn't necesary that the who tool hardens. Check the edge with a file, it shoul dskate, Soak it in an over at 400 for an hoiur. That should get you started.

Look up one brick forge.

Coffe can forge.

My small forge is made in a Juice can. I pressed in a mixture of refractory cement and vermiculite, about 1 part to 4, but the key is the product needs to retain enough of the cement quality to stick well to the inside of the can, I had to add water to this mix. I used one of my propane bottles as a mold to hold the refractory to the sides of the can. I removed the cylinder when the cement had stiffened a little.

There are two holes through the sides of the can for the propane burner nozzles.

It took quite some time for this cement to harden, about one week. I think that perhaps perlite would be a better since it doesn't hold water. After the cement had set, i coated the inside with refractory cement that I had cut to the consistancy of latex paint. Then I coated with ITC 100, though that was probably overkill. Just one of many ways to make a little forge with stuff from around the house.
 
The following is from an ABS Mastersmith concerning hardening 5160 steel for passing a journeyman test for the ABS.

HARDENING: Keep in mind that we are talking about 5160 steel. I recommend edge quenching ONLY on a blade that will be used for something as important as the ABS JS test. If you don’t already have one, make a “limiter plate” for your quench tank. This is nothing more than a ¼” to 3/8” thick piece of aluminum that is choked full of 3/8” holes. At each corner drill and tap a ¼” X 20 hole and use carriage bolts with the heads facing the bottom of the quench tank, and screwed into the holes at each corner of the plate. This will allow you to raise and lower the quench depth to fit any blade. Once the limiter plate is set to the proper depth (about 1/3 of the blades width), pre-heat the quenching oil (I use vet grade mineral oil, and like to quench in the 130-160F range. Be careful here; DO NOT quench when the oil is 180F or higher. At this temp the oil will not cool the steel fast enough to achieve full hardness and your blade will not pass the chopping portion of the ABS JS test.

Note the use of an Oxy/Acetelene, In my experience with the steel industry Oxy/Propane would be just as effective.:D :D :cool:
 
I use an oxy/propane torch for all of my heat treating. The largest blade I've been able to heat treat properly is just shy of 10". And then everything has to be just right. It has to be in the summer time and the moon has to be in the 7th house and jupiter hast to line up with Mars. So I only get to heat treat large blades once in a while. :D

But seriously, an oxy/propane or oxy/acetylene torch rig with a rosebud tip will heat treat a majority of blades with no problem. Once you learn the timing and placement tricks for your equipment it's a breeze. That little claw do-dad should be easy as pie. But don't forget to temper it. At least the sharp point of the claw. You don't need thousands of dollars worth of equipment to get a good heat treat on a blade old buddy. Keep it simple and pay attention to your process and you can do a professional job on all but the largest of blades. But that's just one knothead's opinion.
 
This is great. So if I get an oxy/propane tank with an apropriate tip do I simply hold a piece of the knife, like the handle, in a pair of looooong pliers in one hand and use the torch in my other hand or do i still need to use some type of oven? And as i heat it is the trick to check for magnetism? So i heat it, its no longer magnitized, and i quench it. Then its hardened right? Is any oil ok? Motor oil? Olive oil? And then I harden it? Thanks.
 
Well, I'm glad you asked those questions. It's not as simple as I may have implied, but I figured you had some experience with the basics of heat treating and that was my fault.

This is how I do it, including all the stuff I didn't mention earlier. First, I always try to do my heat treating after the sun goes down so there's no phantom lights jinxing my vision. Keep it as dark as possible and you'll be able to see the changes in the colors of the steel as you heat it and be better prepared to check with the magnet. Heat the steel evenly, on both sides to prevent heat stress and warping, and keep in mind that you always start with the thickest part of the steel first. Get the thick part hot and then start feathering the flame out to the thinner sections. It can be tricky depending on your blade geometry.

So, walk the heat out from the thickest part to the thinnest part and watch for the 'shadow' to flow from the steel. That's kind of hard to explain unless you've seen it. Colors come into play here but since I'm partly color blind I won't try to tell you the colors to look for. Just watch for the shadow line and you'll know it when you see it. Once the shadow line has departed the blade, quickly check it with a magnet. I use a hard drive magnet screwed to the bench right by the quench tank. For my quench tank I use an old aluminum electric skillet so I can preheat the vegetable oil to about 150&deg F. The best mix I've found is half corn oil and half sunflower seed oil. Yeah, it's expensive but it lasts a long time. The reason for that mix is it's flash point is quite high. I've never had a flash fire in my quenching pan even with multiple quenches so it works for me. Why vegetable oil? Long story. Just trust me and give it a try.

Anyway, once the shadow has left the steel and you've checked it with a magnet, it's time for another quick soak with the flame and then the quench. For your process, I'd quench the entire blade starting with the thick spine of the hook. Just slide it smoothly into the preheated oil until it's completely submurged and hold it there until it stops bubbling vigorously. Pull it out and watch the oil. If it starts to vaporize just stick it back in the quench tank for another second or two. Once it stops vaporizing the oil wipe it off with a COTTON cloth and put it immediately into the tempering oven. I use a $5 toaster oven I found at the local flea market. I calibrated it with a temp gauge to make sure it was right. That's important for consistent results. Calibrate your tempering oven, no matter what you use. A small toaster oven will usually maintain a more constant heat than a big oven in the house. Take my word for it.

The type of steel you use determines the tempering temp. Regular carbon steel, especially with the blade geometry you're talking about, will do fine at between 400&deg F and 450&deg F. Test it with a good file when the temper cycle (about an hour) is finished. I don't think you can go wrong with these directions but be sure and look at any other info posted before you go whole hog on the deal. Diversity is the spice of life and I wouldn't discount anything most of these pros will tell you here. Next!
 
What a well written explaination for that method - wow.

Thanks Max!

Based on the little bit of heattreating carbon steels I've done, Tyrkon, there is more important information in that post than you'll know for a long time.

Forget what he said about reading other posts. Follow those instructions to the letter for the first few blades. Then you can try other things.

If there is one thing I've learned on this forum, it's this: Find a pro and follow the exact instructions he gives. Don't blend ideas. There's too many subtleties in the mixture of time/materials/methods for the novice assume anything.

After success with that EXACT method, then you can improve or blend ideas.

Steve

Hint - don't heattreat a blade for the first time. Use Scrap!
 
Sando, while you make me blush with your kind words, you should never discount the instructions you can get here from all kinds of makers. I'm just the crust on the bottom of the pan here. There are many more fine makers that can illuminate heat treating much better than I have done. Never discount the instructions you get from any pro here. I'm no pro. I'm just a schmuck that happens to post here from time to time. My methods are always up for discussion. Ask Mike Williams. He'll tell you that I need alot more practice! Heeeeeee haaawwwwwwwww!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! KIT, don't you have anything to say here? I'm sure you have an opinion. I sure would like to hear it since I'm way down here in Arkansas and don't have a clue. God loves a giver that doesn't expect any return. Go figure.:D
 
Max,

I'm sorry. I didn't make my point very well. I didn't mean to imply yours in the only way or even the best (it might be ;) ). My point to Tyrkon is to first use a single, complete, tested method, before inventing your own.

Does that make sense?

I've tried taking a combination of suggestions before with terrible results. Why? because something I didn't understand or thought unimportant got left out.

It's like making cherry pie. You can pick a recipe, follow it, and get good results. Or, you can read a dozen recipes and make up your own before trying any one of them. Heck when I do that I forget the cherries!

Your recipe looks goods and is easy to follow. If your going to use a torch, yours looks like a great one to try first. There's some subtle stuff in there that the novice might skip, but shouldn't.

For example you say to use cotton. Why? I'll guess because its a natural fiber. If there are any little fibers left on the blade they'll burn off in the oven. Whereas a synthetic cloth, might leave fibers that will leave marks or goopy stuff. Or maybe it's because cotton absorbs more. Heck I don't know, but it's part of your recipe and should be followed before trying something else.

I think everybody ought to try a number of methods/recipes. But do that before experimenting.

I hope that's a little more to my meaning.

Steve
 
I think you have now gotten about the best startup instructions possible. I've been reading Max's stuff for years both here and on other blacksmith, bladesmith sites. It's pretty much no nonsense advice.
As to the propane torch, It is suitable to do very small blades. I have hardened thousands of small chisels and scrapers with one. The bean can and one brick forges increase the blade size you can do some. It is not what I call Ideal for knife making but sure beats a Bic lighter. Get some scrap and HT them. Use a file to test the hardness. A properly hardened piece of steel should cause the file to skate before tempering.

Mete is right that you need to learn something about metallurgy. I don't know that you need to know it first. It will come if you become interested in knife making. I am attaching the following as I consider it the Readers Digest of the Holy Graile for beginners.
Hope this helps some

STEELS USED BY KNIFE MAKERS

0-1 is perhaps the most forgiving of any knife quality steel other than the very simple alloy types, and produces a blade of excellent quality for most normal use. It can be heat treated very easily. Further references? Well, the ole' master, Cooper, used it for many years and folks do love his blades because they're tough. Awhile back, one of the best of the blade smiths said that well treated 0-1 would out cut any Damascus, and no one argued with him. Edge holding is exceptional. 0-1 is precision ground unless you're lucky enough to stumble across some mill bar. Goof up the heat treat and 0-1 will let you try again as often as you like, as long as you don't overheat the metal. Tough on grinding belts.

0-6 is the next step up from 0-1 easy heat treat but pure hell to grind. It's significantly tougher, with finer crystalline structure and hard graphitic particles that resist wear. Stock is both hot rolled and precision ground. Hot rolled prices are reasonable. Very tough to grind. Edges are incredible, lasting even longer than the best Damascus and even 0-1. Has an odd, rather orange spark.

W-1, W-2, and the series of 10-- steels from 1045 through 1095 are the ultimate in simplicity and very shallow hardening so they may be used to make a selectively hardened edge as one sees on old Japanese swords. Toughness is outstanding, with these alloys being used for grader blade edges, truck springs and files. Uses up grinding belts at quite a rapid rate. Edges are acceptable with 1045, good with 1060, nice with 1084, and excellent with 1095, W-1 or W-2. Those last two are often referred to as O-F, old file. It is very easy to get the higher carbon end of this series way too hard to make a good knife.

5160 is a common spring steel, basically 1060 with one per-cent of chromium added to make it deep hardening. ( It may still be selectively drawn with a softer back, if desired.) An excellent steel for swords, or any other blade that will have to take some battering. The choice of Jim Hrisoulas who makes some of the finest working swords in the business. Long blades are best around the mid 50's on the Rockwell scale, while small, working blades can be put into service at a full 60 RC. Forged blades with a well packed edge seem to cut forever! Rough on grinding belts. Jokingly called O-C-S, old chevy spring.

52100 is a ball bearing steel, generally not found in useful grinding sizes, but terrific in edge holding and toughness. 52100 is 5160 with an attitude, more alloy and more carbon that makes it harder and tougher. Like 5160, throws a brilliant yellow spark. Ed Fowler has developed a superior heat treating technique for this steel.

L-6 is the band or circular saw blade steel used in most lumber mills and downright hard to find in any other form. Hardens in oil to about RC 57 and takes a fine edge for most cutting, particularly where the edge might be steeled back into shape. Outstanding where flexibility is needed but rusts easily, like virtually all of the simple carbon steels. L-7 is the same stuff with a little more carbon.

A-2 is an exceptional steel, with fine wear-resisting qualities plus excellent resistance to annealing and warping. Grinding is noticeably harder than 0-1 but not extremely difficult. Sawing is tougher and relates to the five percent of chrome in this steels chemical make up. Really nice to finish with the grinder and very little grain appearing in buffing. Excellent flexibility. Phil Hartsfield get incredible cutting ability out of this steel. Several other of the A series will also make fine blades.

D-2 offers another air hardening tool steel, but with 12% chrome and excellent, if not superb, wear resistance. The resistance also holds true in both sawing and grinding, even while the steel is fully annealed. While using belts up at a faster rate than average, D-2 is not particularly hard to grind with fresh belts. Using old belts causes enough heat to work harden the steel. D-2 anneals at somewhat higher temperature than A-2 and will not take a true, mirror polish. Definitely a steel for the advanced craftsman. It's major drawback is the orange peel appearance of the surface when finished to a high gloss. One knife maker is often quoted as saying that D-2 takes a lousy edge and holds it forever. Often found as surplus wood plainer blades. D-4 and D-7 are also good cutlery alloys, but darn hard to find in the right sizes. Air hardening steels can work harden while you're grinding them if you get the stock too hot. This doesn't mean much on the grinder, but when you try to file a guard notch, the file will just slide.

M-2 is a high temperature steel made for lath cutting tools, which has darn little to do with knives, but allows you to really cook the blade in finishing after heat treat without annealing it. M-2 is perhaps a bit better in edge holding than D-2. It is also rather brittle and not recommended for large knives.

440C was the first generally accepted knife makers' stainless and remains quite popular, particularly since the sub-zero process was developed to add toughness. On the grinder, it's gummy and gets hot fast, but it cuts a lot faster and easier than any of the carbon steels. Your belts will cut about 2 to 3 times as much 440-C than 0-1. Using hand hacksaws on it will wear out a lot of blades in a hurry. But with the proper care, good heat treating and finishing, 440C produces an excellent, serviceable and durable knife, even for the new knife maker. Anneals at very low temperature. Please note that 440A and 440B are similar alloys, often confused with 440C, but not worth a damn for knife making use. Commercial knife companies often mark blades 440 when they're one of the less desirable versions, giving the real stuff a bad name. 440C is also available in more sizes and in more places than just about any stainless alloy suitable for knives. It is also essential to remember that collectors hate to see one of their prizes turn brown in the sheath, and 440C handles corrosion resistance very well. While the wariation, 440-V doesn't seem to get quite as hard, but holds an edge for much longer and is much more difficult to grind.

154CM was considered by many to be super-steel, if you can find some of the old production stock. The new batches are not manufactured to the standards that we've come to expect for knife steel. While excellent in use, 154CM eats up the finest hacksaw blades in one across-the-bar cut of 1-1/2". It's machining and grinding qualities are similar to 440C and won't win it any awards for ease in working. In use though, this alloy has a definite advantage in both hardness and toughness over 440C. 154 CM is not an accepted standard grade designation, rather a manufacturers trade name.

ATS-34 Japanese made stainless considered the equal of 154CM. Import restrictions have been eased somewhat, although they were forced to raise the price by 50%. Cleaner than the 154CM. ( 154 CM is no longer used in government specified applications and is not the vacuum melt product that we once appreciated.) ATS 34 is virtually the exact same alloy as 154 CM, minus 0.04% of one of the less essential elements. ATS is double vacuum melted and very clean. It also comes with a hard, black skin that will put a shine on your grinding belt before you know it. We recommend knocking the skin off with old belts before tapering the tang or Vee grinding. One fellow tried to take the skin off with an industrial motor driven wire brush wheel. All he did was polish it. We now stock a belt the is specifically designed to remove this scale. ATS 34 is a trade name. The three, 154 CM, ATS 34 and 440-C, all have a small, reddish spark that has a distinct, but hard to see carbon fork. ATS 34 ia also a trade name. That super hard black skin on some of these steels, as well as forging scale, can be "pickled" to remove it. Buy a gallon of inexpensive white vinegar, and leave the steel in it overnight. Works like magic. If it doesn't work, or makes the shop smell like a salad, blame Doug Brack, who gave me this hint.

AEBL seems to be about 440B. Extremely easy to grind, in fact, I think I may have set a world record with it a few years back, over a hundred blades from bar stock to 220 grit within eight hours. Heat treat like 440C. Edge holding is best when heat treating includes a freeze cycle. Very easy to polish and buff. Very nice choice for miniatures, kitchen knives, etc. AEBL has several quirky habits in grinding that make it difficult to use on thicker or larger knives. Makes nice kitchen knives. "Hoss" uses this in his beautiful stainless Damascus and reports that it holds up very well.

End Part one
 
Part two

420 modified stainless, has been successfully used by some commercial knife producers, but availability is not practical for the hobby knife maker since darn few of us order steel in mill rolls.

VASCO WEAR is rather expensive but very, very good in edge holding. Resists grinding very well too! You'll swear your belts have all gone dull when you try it. Do everything you have to before heat treating, cause you sure aren't going to be able to do much afterward. Priced like lobster tails, when you can find it. Try Vasco-Pacific in the Los Angeles area. Vasco - Pacific uses their own series of names for their alloys.

DAMASCUS steel is such a widely made product that it is impossible to make too many general statements about it, other than it seems to catch collectors better than any other type. Each smith does his in a slightly different way, ranging from the fellow who toughs it out, starting with three layers, to the guy who welds a 300 layer sandwich of shim stock into a billet with one hit in a 40 ton press. They're all pretty. Reese Weiland suggests that the last etch of a Damascus blade be done with phosphoric acid, which will sort of, parkerize the metal and help protect it. He said that you have to play around with the concentration of the acid and immersion times a bit, depending on the steel you're using. This will also work on most carbon steel blades. If a Damascus blade has been hardened with a softer section at the spine or guard, you will get a much better looking etch if you use muriatic acid first, to get the depth you want, and then ferric chloride for adding color.

STELLITE 6-K fits into the same category as Vasco Wear in the wear resistance area, but doesn't need heat treating since there is no iron in it at all. The trick is exceptionally hard particles embedded in a rather soft alloy. Very flexible and easy to bend. Virtually cannot be brought to a mirror finish. Stellite blades are very much in demand by some collectors. The alloy best suited for knives now must be ordered from Canada and costs about a hundred bucks a pound. Part of Stellites toughness comes from the rolling process used to form the bars. Cast Stellite is not nearly as tough.

TITANIUM is only a marginally acceptable metal for a knife blade. It cannot be hardened much past the mid 40's of the Rockwell C scale, and that's spring, or throwing knife territory. Aside from that, I'm sure that there will soon be collectable titanium knives on many custom makers tables, designed to catch collectors, and not for cutting.

Powdered, cast and fused stainless and tool steel alloys, (Alphabet Alloys ) have popped up all over during the past few years, and they are some of the darndest steels ever encountered. The advantage is that elements can just be stirred in to create desirable properties. ( A vastly simplified description.) Virtually all of them are terribly tough to grind, but hold a cutting edge beyond all reasonable expectation. The names of these alloys change weekly, and they're too numerous to list, but they work in a lot of applications that send normal knife steels running for cover. The one possible drawback is unusual brittleness.

Many steel mills hang their own labels on regular alloys. This confuses things no end. Then, cutlery manufactures jump in with trick names for the alloys they use and fuzz it up even worse. A blade marked 440 is hardly ever 440-C, the best of the three 440 alloys. If it was, they would have marked it with the C. Trick names, like Tungsten 6 or Vanadium 3 are usually an effort to capitalize on a trace of desirable alloying element in a generally poor quality steel. If the steel is any good, a knife manufacturer will not hesitate to tell you what the alloy is, using the proper standard name.

Hack sawing any bar stock into knife sized chunks can be a real chore, and will use up a lot of saw blades. Abrasive wheel cutoff saws are now very competitively priced and a labor saving gadget when it comes to chopping steel. Bargain wheels run around $4 for a 14 inch disc. Get the externally re-enforced type. They last about three times as long as the internally re-enforced versions. Keep an old jacket or long sleeved shirt in the shop to shield your arms from the fiberglass that the wheel sheds while it's working. The darn stuff itches like crazy.

If anyone knows of a small rolling mill that would take 500 lb lots of, say, 52100 round rod, and roll it into rectangular bar stock, please let us know. In fact let everybody in knife making know. There are dozens of great alloys out there that distributors refuse to stock in useful sizes, and a custom rolling mill would help all of us.

HARDENING SIMPLE STEELS

All of the really low alloy steels have one feature which make them virtually foolproof when it comes to cooking them for hardening. When one of the low alloy steels reaches the critical temperature where it can be hardened by quenching, it turns non - magnetic. As the steel heats, check it with a magnet. At a certain point, the magnet won't stick. That's usually at a temperature ( color ) far lower than you would think. Once the magnet won't stick to the blade, give it a moment more in the fire and then into the quench it goes. ( An extra 50 degrees over the critical temperature insures better hardening and won't hurt the steel.)

The simple aloys can also be selectively hardened, not with a fancy temper line, but with a softer back that will make the spine and tang less susceptible to breakage. All you have to do is take the blade up to heat very quickly, getting the thin parts along the edge hot before the thicker spine. You could also just dip the cutting edge into the oil, allowing the spine to cool more slowly, not hardening it.

Should you err and get the spine too hot and inadvertently harden it, you can use a torch to partially anneal the critical areas. I recommend that all stick tang blades have a softer section where the tang joins the blade.

When the hot blade hits the oil, you will almost always get some fire. Don't leave the tang half out of the oil. It is near red hot, sticking out of the oil and acting like the wick of a candle to start a fire in the tank. NEVER use a small tank of oil to quench a lot of blades. Sooner or later, you'll find the flash point of the oil. That's where it starts burning all by itself, and you won't like that one little bit.

Forged blades will always have stress than needs to be worked out before hardening. They should be annealed, preferably several times before hardening. Some knife makers have had wonderful results by annealing their blade steel three times before hardening. It reduces grain size significantly, making a much tougher blade.

SERIOUS HEAT TREATING

1040 to 1050 steel Water quench from 1525 to 1550 F. Hardens to approx. RC 58. Very easy to get cracks with water quenching. Draw at 350 F. for spring temper, best for daggers, etc. Shallow hardening and can be done with beautiful, Japanese style temper lines.

1050 to 1095 steel Brine quench from 1475 to 1500 F. hardens to RC 60 to 65. Draw immediately. Oil quench at the same temperatures for slightly lower hardness. Shallow hardening and can be done in the Japanese style with a decorative temper line.

4150, 5150, 6150 steel Oil quench from 1525 to 1600 F.

5160 steel Oil quench from 1525 to 1600 F.

52100 steel Oil quench from 1525 to 1600 F. Harden, cool and let the blade settle for a day (24 hours). Re-harden twice more at the same interval. Cutting edge toughness is fantastic. Draw at about 350 F, three times, and the spine may be torch drawn to spring temper. Ed Fowler gets incredible cutting and flexibility with this method.

O-1, O-2, O-6, O-7 steel Preheat slowly to 1200 F. Oil quench from 1450 to 1500 F. Draw at about 350 F. O-6 reaches RC 65.

W-1, W-2, W-3 steel Preheat slowly to 1050 F. Water (brine) quench from 1400 to 1500 F. Draw immediately. May also be oil hardened if cross sections are radical, or simply for less chance of cracking. Shallow hardening and will work with Japanese temper lines.

L-6, L-7 steel Quench from 1450 to 1550 F in water or brine. Doesn't really need to be drawn. L-7 will give slightly more hardness.

D-2, D-7 steel Preheat at 1500 F. Harden from 1850 to 1875 F. Draw immediately.

A-2 steel Preheat at 1450. Air harden from 1700 to 1800 F. Draw at 350 F.

S-1, S-2, S-5, S-7 steel Preheat at 1200 to 1300 F. Harden from 1650 to 1750 F for S-1, 1550 to 1650 F for S-2, 1600 to 1700 F for S-5 and 1700 to 1750 F for S-7. Draw at 350 to 400 F.

M-2 steel Preheat at 1400. Oil or air quench from 2175 to 2250 F. Draw at 1000 F.

440-C steel Air harden from 1850 to 1950 F. Draw at 325 F. Freezing to dry ice temperature for several hours before the draw will enhance toughness and hardness remarkably. Don't bother with 440-A or 440-B.

154 CM, ATS 34 steel Air harden from 1975 F. Straighten before they cool below 250. Freeze at -220 F for 6 to 8 hours. Double draw at 950 F, two hours each cycle. (Paul Bos method) Gives RC 59 - 60 and marvelous durability.

Damascus Harden to specifications of the highest carbon content component. Damascus may be treated a bit rougher than homogenous alloys. San-mai Damascus sometimes has severe shrinking problems which will pull apart the center layer.

Water hardening is a mis-used term. In virtually all cases where a steel is referred to as water hardening, they're actually talking about quenching in brine, heated to a temperature of 170 degrees, (F) or above. Brine is made by dissolving non-iodized salt in water until a egg will float in it. Jim Hrisoulas uses bluing salts to make his brine. The whole idea is to raise the boiling temperature of the liquid and make it transfer heat better. Brine will eat right through an ordinary steel barrel in a very short time. Jim Ferguson just mixes in borax and detergent to reduce the surface tension.

Drawing is normally done for 30 minutes when one has the equipment to properly maintain the temperature. Flash drawing, that is, heating to show a certain oxide color on the metal surface and then letting it cool, is fine for softening a spine, but not best for the cutting edge.

Any steel which has a low draw temperature may be drawn to a softer temper along the spine to give it better shock resistance. If this is done, the blade will almost always curve a bit towards the softer part of the blade. This works better on shallow hardening steel than on others but can be done on 5160, 52100, A-2, 440-C and others.

Many of the low alloy steels, like 0-1 and 5160, will show a temper line if the blade is selectively hardened, but the line is rather plain, merely a division between hard and soft. A proper, decorative line, needs either the 10 series, or W series of steel. Oil quenching will produce a temper line in those steels, but water quenching is necessary if one desires the more intricate details of the Japanese style line.
 
part 3
SPARKS GIVE A CLUE TO COMPOSITION

The spark from a steel with .15 to.40 of one percent carbon will simply fork.

Steel with at least .45 of one per cent carbon will show a small but distinct secondary burst. This is considered the minimum for hardening into a useful knife.

Carbon over one per cent will give an intense and multiple bursts.

Moderate silicon makes a spark that is short and ends with a sharp white flash.

Nickel sparks have a small, very intense and bright white color.

Molybdenum gives a spark with a distinct, separate head.

Sparks are best judged by looking at the last third of the trail. Alloys with several additives will confuse the heck out of anyone.

OVEN DRAWING COLORS

If you want to do your own heat treating on some of the easier steel types, you will have to first harden the steel all the way, then draw its' hardness back a bit to keep it from being too brittle to use as a knife. You can do this in an ordinary kitchen oven, but most ovens have a crude thermostat that is not much better that taking an educated guess at the temperature. The scientific term is SWAG, scientific wild assed guess.

A note here, to keep peace in the household. Any blade that goes into the kitchen oven for drawing must be wiped clean of quenching oil and then soaked in the sink with plenty of dish washing detergent for awhile, getting the last traces of oil off. Why? Putting an oily blade in the oven and heating it to four hundred degrees creates an absolutely terrible smell that lingers for days. Your wife won't let you forget it for a lot longer than that.

Oxide colors will form on clean steel as it is heated. You've seen them many times, as the steel got hot where you're grinding.

Contrary to some belief, these do not indicate that the steel has had its' carbon burned out. All it means is that the steel got hot, and if hardened, lost some of the hardness. ( Burning carbon out of a blade takes bright yellow heat applied for more than just a minute.)

The colors are a very precise indicator of temperature with simple carbon steel.

400 degrees, pale straw

425 degrees, straw

490 degrees, golden yellow

500 degrees, brown

525 degrees, brown purple

570 degrees, purple

600 degrees, bright blue

650 degrees, pale blue

There is one little catch when using the color with any steel more complex than 0-1. They don't all react to a given temperature with the same color. D-2, for instance, looks a lot different from 0-1 at 450 degrees. It's best to put a scrap piece of 0-1 or 1095 in with the complex stuff when running the draw cycle, and use it as a precise indicator.

RED HEAT TEMPERATURES

Faintest dull red 900F

Dull red 1200F

Cherry red 1400F

Orange red 1500F

Bright salmon orange 1600F

Brilliant orange 1640F

Temperatures should be judged in a dimly lit area. If you are working outside, colors will appear at least one or possible two steps too low, and you will severely overheat the steel. I have become intimately familiar with this problem. One fellow has a open barrel set horizontal beside the forge, providing a shaded spot to stick the blade into for judging steel temperature.

SELECTIVE TEMPERING

If you want the spine of a carbon steel blade drawn softer than the cutting edge, the process isn't nearly as difficult as you might think. All you need is an inexpensive wallpaper tray, filled with water, and a torch. A propane torch will work, but the oxyacetylene type works a lot better.

You hold the blade above the tray, edge down, and begin heating the spine until you start to see some color. You always start at the heaviest part of the blade. The first color will be a pale yellow.

At this point, try to keep at least half an inch of the cutting edge in the water. This will keep the heat from running down to the parts that have to stay hard. Work the heat only on the very spine, and work slowly towards the tip. Stop well back from the tip. It will heat easily and you want it to stay hard.

If you are using a acetylene torch. the flame must be aimed directly down at the spine of the blade. If you heat from the side, the blade will warp. This is not a problem with the slower heating L P torch. After you melt a tray or two, you'll also want to use a metal tank.

When the length of the spine has a rich blue color, it will be drawn to a high 40 or low 50 Rockwell, which is right where you want it. On stick tang blades, you should cook the junction of tang and blade to at least a good rich brown to prevent any brittle fracture at that point. The end half of a tang doesn't need to be hardened at all.

Some of the more complex alloys with low drawing temperatures, like 440-C and A-2 may also be treated to soften the back with this technique.





Engnath
 
I use cotton cloths to wipe my hot blades with because of a really sticky situation I got involved with one time. Actually, the dang cloth caught on fire and I was flopping it around trying to figure out what the hell to do with it. Good thing I have several 5 gallon buckets full of water in the shop. Use cotton cloths to wipe your freshly quenched blades with. Ask me how I know. :D
 
I just used a $50.00 MAPP/Oxygen set up from Home Depot. I was able to heat treat 7 blades in less than 10 minutes.

Before I had twin propane torches within a fire brick set-up. That took 10 minutes to get one blade to nonmagnetic.

So if you are looking to start, I'd recommend the Bernzomatic Mapp/Oxygen set up. It's the same cost as two propane torches.
 
Thanks for all the data. Lots of good stuff. Now I have an idea how to heat treat and harden I have a specific question in regards to steel type. I was thinking on using 440C. Is that a good steel to start with? Is it fairly straight forward to harden and temper? As I am looking through different catalouges for steel I see "cold rolled" and "hot rolled". What is the difference? I assumed I just needed to get annealed 440C. Are there any key temps., color changes, etc... I should look for or do I just rely on the magnetism? Should I quench it in motor oil, olive oil, water, air???And how do I know what the rockwell hardness is at the end or is that impossible to determine with out doing it professionally. I just want to let the buyers know as much data as possible.

Thus far I think the game plan is to get a piece of 440C 1-1 1/2 in. wide and 1/8 - 1/4 thick from one of the popular knife making suppliers. Then I will get a heat treating set up, like the ones mentioned previously in this thread, from Home Depot (do I have to build some sort of makeshift oven or am I simply holding the blade over a flame? And go from there. I guess the best experience sometimes is to simply do it.

And I am not sure if I saw this answered, as it is so basic, but I have to ask because I am a beginner. Once I get the blade all cut out and ready to heat treat how do I hold it. Do I simply use a pair of long pliers and grip the knife by the handle ares? Should I do all the drilling, and sharpening etc... before I heat treat so the metal is still soft? Thanks again.
 
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