bone scales and delrin..what can go wrong with them?

jbmonkey

jbmonkey

sure sure
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Sirs and Ma'am's if there are any?

i recently got into "traditional styles".....got a handful already and i'm enjoying them immensely...not sure what changed in me...but what's done is done and i'm digging on traditionals right now. got a boker copperhead, 2 boker fellow lockbacks, a case sodbuster, and a queen country cousin sodbuster, buck 110, and some rr cheapos....

i like bone and delrin type scales and such right now. so i'm wondering what can go wrong with bone and delrin type scales what do the issues look like? on bone i couldn't find any pictures online of obvious warping, cracking, and i'm not sure what else can happen? i did find lots of info on celluloid, but i'm not sure if delrin and other "plastics" used today on modern made traditionals falls into that category or not? can anything worse than those two things happen? can bone rot, or delaminate/de-layer(made up term "de-layer" for a lack of a better term) or anything i hadn't considered yet? will delrin or whatever is used today fall into the issues the old celluloid style stuff used has happen to it?

i know less than nothing on bone handle and delrin type materials/scales, so you won't insult me at all to talk to me like a child/dummie. thank you in advance for any feedback and information, and i apologize if this has been covered 1000 times, i did search google and the site, but i'm guessing my words aren't matching what is out there?
 
Like you mentioned, bone can crack and in the worst cases a piece of the bone might fall off. I have seen old, well used bone handled knives that are still completely in tact with no chips or cracks and I have seen them with both. The great thing about bone scales is that there are so many different colors and jigging patterns to choose from and you just can't beat the pocket worn look of a well used jigged bone handled knife. Smooth bone looks real nice too.

Delrin is very durable and it will not gas out like celluloid can.

Both are excellent choices for handle scales.
 
Delrin bears absolutely no similarity to the old 'celluloid' (thankfully). No de-gassing or issues of causing corrosion. The only issues I've seen with OLDER delrin, is sometimes you'll find old delrin knives with scales that've shrunk or warped or faded a bit. Delrin has a long history (invented back in the '50s), and has gone through many incarnations in it's chemical make-up. Even now, Dupont has several compositions of Delrin, depending upon the intended application. For the most part, I think the stuff from at least the '80s forward is virtually bullet-proof in it's durability, maybe even back to the '70s (Camillus/Remington/Schrade knives from that era, with Delrin handles, still look great). Delrin is more flexible, which can be both a good and a bad thing. On the negative side, on knives with thin liners and no metal bolsters (like a sodbuster), that flexibility can reduce the strength of handles/pivots. Not a lot of lateral (sideways) strength in these knives, so you need to avoid excessive bending/torquing/twisting of the knife when working). Lateral blade play is pretty common in these knives, to some extent. That's to be expected, and is not a big deal, so long as uses the knife as it should be used (as a cutter, not a prying tool).

Bone is quite durable and very hard, but not bulletproof. If you watch the listings on the 'auction site', of older bone-handled knives (especially '70s and earlier), you'll often see issues with cracks near the pins on traditional knives. Especially near/around the anchor pin for the backspring. Opening/closing the knife can exert some stress on the pin, which moves/flexes and cracks the bone. Sometimes the cracks will develop into bigger fractures/chips. Small cracks near the scale pins may not necessarily be a problem, though. Otherwise, bone is usually very tough and virtually scratch-proof.
 
thank you both. great info, greatly appreciated.

anyone ever seen bone crumble to dust in a spot or peel apart in layers or anything wacky like that?
 
jbmonkey said:
thank you both. great info, greatly appreciated.

anyone ever seen bone crumble to dust in a spot or peel apart in layers or anything wacky like that?
Click to expand...

Never seen that (no disintegration or de-laminating). Bone pretty much will just crack and/or chip sometimes. I think stag, and maybe ivory sometimes, can peel/flake a bit. But even that is rare enough, so as not to be a concern to me.

The only times I've heard the words 'dust' and 'bone' associated, are when sanding or grinding it. The dust is known to be hazardous when inhaled, so wear a respirator when sanding it.
 
Interesting post, 300. :thumbup:

I noticed the included link in the older thread is no longer active. Here's another link to Wiki, I assume relating to the same material information:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyoxymethylene

I've seen some pics of older black delrin-handled knives (Case sodbuster is one I've seen) with that grey haze on them. Odd thing is, I only see it once in a while, on what seems to be a small sample of knives. Makes me wonder if there's another specific contributor to the problem, resulting in chemical interaction with the scales. The Wiki article linked above seems to indicate that some versions of it can oxidize if/when exposed to certain chemicals ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyoxymethylene#Degradation ). At least it appears to be something that can be cleaned off and/or finish restored, as opposed to the permanent damage done by actual breaking down of the material (celluloid), and the associated corrosion to the blades.
 
Here is another link that I have posted in threads also.
http://www.complexplastics.com/delrin/DelrinData.pdf

Buck 300s as traditional folders seem more prone to this from the 1970s and 80s versions. I have had Cami assembled Bucks degrade in my own collection gun safe and I have seem them for sale at shows and on the auction site. They appear to not harm newer knives that are stored beside them. Or to bleed over onto knives that more frequently handled and oiled. I feel that a closed tight storage location causes this . Cleaning, oiling and handling helps keep this from happening. Have never associated any metal damage to its presence.

Here is photo of some Buck/Cami made yachtsman knives, the early models with bolsters is the only ones of these I have seen this deposit one. The one on the lower right is starting to show this deposit. These were and are stored side by side. The bolstered knife on the left is a older model but apparently has received better care than the one on the right.
DSCF1563_edited-2.jpg


Here is photo of a Buck Stockman I used in a recent thread that I copied from a auction site. I have seen some this bad and consider it about as bad as it can get. You can see how it rubs off on the high spots.
Used301A.jpg


All FYI But remember, you can clean it off your traditional Delrin knife and bring it back to good condition. So don't fret.
300Bucks
 
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