Boron Carbide Coatings

D

DarrellGLewis

Joined
Jan 2, 2001
Messages
108
During the past few months both knife manufactures and custom
maker have started using Boron Carbide.What do you think of this new coating?

We are always trying to develop new coatings that have higher hardness and better corrosion resistance.Next year we have bugeted funding for a new generation of Physical Vapor Deposition Coatings using both Arc Evaporation and Sputtering.My question to the knife and gun community is what in a coating are you looking for? COLOR HARDNESS CORROSION or the TEMPERURE they're deposited?

A couple of new coatings we will introduce at SHOT SHOW are
Tungsten Carbon (WCC) and Tungsten Carbon with a Diamond like Carbon
Layer. (WCC+DLC)

This techlogy allows us to evaporate almost any element under vacuum to form a plasma and redeposit in the form of a coating.I.e. Titanium Zirconium Chromium Boron Carbide Aluminium and Copper just to name a few.So let me know what you need?


Darrell Lewis
Dlewis@bodycote-na.com


YOU MAKE IT FIRST-WE MAKE IT LAST
 
Hi Darrell!
I have read quite a bit lately on this coating you have been doing. Very good article in the latest Blade magazine.

Anyway not having gotten a blade with it as yet, am impressed with what I have read about the scratch resistance when put on a knife blade. I think one of the biggest peeves is that after having, and using a knife with a black coated blade for a while, and it gets scratched that it looks very cheezy, and loses its coolness. Don't know what other words to describe this. So I think this is an important factor, as well as using it on not-stainless blades it would still look good after much use, as well as the protection it would give against rust, etc.

All the factors you stated are important, but the ones I mentioned above would be a big selling factor.

Just my .02 cents.

Larry
 
Hi!

Nice to see someone from the actual producer of these coatings!

What i'm looking for in any coating for my knives is first corossion resistance and then looks.
But of course i prefer the coating to stay put, the coating on my Microtech seems to last very well.

Hope to see longer lasting/better protecting coatings in the future :)
 
The best coating for corrosion resistance is aways going
to be Chromium Carbide or Nitride.This coating is silver or gray in color.
Most knives in the past have been coated with black Titanium Carbonitride. Once you start adding Carbon to the coating you start to lose corrosion.The best coating for both wear and corrosion would be a Multi-Layered film with both Chromium and Titanium or Boron.

Darrell
Dlewis@bodycote-na.com
 
I have a Benchmade 450 Park Avenue. Over the past two months, I have used it daily at work as my primary office EDC.

Opening boxes, cutting food, I use it as a staple remover and as a small prybar when needed.

The boron coating has nary a scratch. I have used other small gentlemen's knives, most notably the Boker/Klotzli KLM 3 with black coating and after a week, its coating is very scratched and as mentioned above, very "uncool".

One of the best aspects of the coating is that unlike the Ti and Teflon coatings, the boron is transparent and ultra-thin. It doesn't mask the grinds and finish of the steel, and it doesn't look like plastic.
 
Architect many times when a Boron Carbide coated blade is used as a
prybar or something like removeing staples the metal from the staple or metal object will load or deposit on top of the coating and look like a scratch.One can take some fime steel wool (OOOO) and polish the material off without damage to the Boron Carbide.

The only way to scratch Boron Carbide is for it to come in contact
with something harder RC90+ or the base material below the coating give way. Please try the steelwool and let me know.

Darrell Lewis
 
The things to pay attention to are:

1 - Looks: don't make it too scary
2 - Looks: Scratch resistance
3 - Corrosion resistance

Not necessarily in that order -- there has to be a good balance of all 3.


The main reason I don't buy coated knives is because most of them are black, and that makes the knife look too aggressive. Non-black coatings are a good thing, and the closer it looks to plain-ol' metal, the better.

Next is scratch resistance. On a knife that's simply going to be a use-and-abuse knife, I don't care about this at all. But many knives I buy both for performance and style. Scratched coatings look really bad in that case. Worse yet, many knives have aesthetics that have the coating factored in -- that is, the entire aesthetics have been designed around the fact that the blade is matte black, or whatever. So it's not just that the blade looks bad -- the entire knife looks bad once the coating starts scratching off.

Lastly, corrosion resistance. On a stainless steel blade, I don't care about this at all. But it is corrosion-resistant coatings that have given many production and custom makers the courage to put out non-stainless blades. I'd like this trend to continue. So a good corrosion resistant coating is important for non-stainless blades. But if you have a coating that meets my two goals above -- non-threatening looks and scratch resistance -- but isn't very corrosion resistant, I strongly believe you should come out with it any anyway, as a solution for certain type of blades.

Joe
 
Joe, some knives are meant to look scary! :)

Darrell, I absolutely love the Boron Carbide coating. In my use I have not scratched it. I have not intentionally abused it however, but I have dug in the dirt with a camo BC blade and scratched the bare stell and refinished the knife with silica sand abrasive blast and blasted right over the BC coat with no noticeable effect on the coating.

The things I would want would be an OD green color, and a tan color so I could tri color to make true camo finishes! I dont ask for much do I? :D

My preferences for your above mentioned qualities would be....

1) Coating temperature. If you cant coat in under the temperature you tempered the steel at all is for naught.

2) Hardness

3) Color

4) Corrosion resistance (If applied to stainless steels or Talonite/Stellite.

That WCC sounds very exciting!
 
I have used the BlackTi coating from TiGold in the past. Without going into too much detail I will say that I have not been satisfied with the BlackTi coating. I just today received my first batch of Boron Carbide coated blades from Bodycoat. They coated a couple of small test blades for us several weeks ago and I quickly became sold on the Boron Carbide coating. It is by far the best coating I have ever had put on a blade.

The people at Bodycoat are great to work with too. They keep up with the details and they also keep the customer informed of what things are happening and when they are going to happen.
 
Barry thanks for the kind words we always try to keep our customers
informed of there product. Sometimes customers need their order back to meet a deadline and we try our best.THANKS FOR YOUR SUPPORT.

Now for you Rob Simonich boy you don't ask for much let's see a TRI-COLORED CAMO.First layer tan colored Titanium Nitride then Chromiun
Oxide for the Green and then Boron Carbide for the Black sounds possible.just like multi colored Tiger Striped this camo coating will never see full blown production.It sure is fun to have someone like you to push us to the MAX.

Darrell Lewis



YOU MAKE IT FIRST-WE MAKE IT LAST
 
So what are we waiting for Darrell? :D And full blown production on tri color would be about 10 pieces a year I would imagine!
 
At this time very few of my knives wear coats. For me, a coating must add some legitimate utility to the knife, or perhaps add aesthetic appeal to an art knife. The perfect utility coating should be durable, i.e., it should not come off during normal knife usage, it should offer resistance to corrosion well above an uncoated blade, it should increase lubricity, i.e., make it easier for the knife to cut through thick pieces of material, and it should not detract from the knife's appearance, tactical considerations aside. Every coating I have tried thus far fails in one or more of the previous categories. I look forward to trying this new Boron Carbide coating.
 
I think coatings should be scratch resistant, and then corrosion resistant. Another thing to consider is something that is FDA approved, for use in kitchen knives. I love a high carb kitchen knife, but sometimes it is a pain to have to clean it immediately. Also, I think rob mentioned the temp it does on at. Most coatings are around 900, which is useless for a High carb blade, which are the ones that will benefit most from a coating for corrosion resistance. Also, ATS-34 corrosion resistance goes downhill when tempered at the 950 mark I believe. A low temp coating would be best overall I think, and let it be used on the steels that could really benefit from a coating.
 
I will try to address the last two post.

Almost all PVD or vacuum coating of Titanium Nitride,Zircomium
Nitride and Boron Carbide have been approved by the FDA most of these coatings are used in food processing and in medical components Ie.
Hip Joints.

LUBRICITY Boron Carbide films have an inherent lubricity that provides
static and dynamic coefficient of friction values of <.20 and<.09
respectively.Used in conjunction with lubricants,dynamic coeffcient of friction can approach zero when measured to four signifcant
decimal places.

Also the Boron Carbide coating process is done at 240 F and will not
reduce the hardness of any tool steels with a tempering above 250F
We have no problem coating 52100,O1 D2 A2 W1 8620 4340 and any
Stainless Steel 440 410 420 ATS34 154CM thats all I can think of right now.

Darrell Lewis
Dlewis@bodycote-na.com


YOU MAKE IT FIRST-WE MAKE IT LAST
 
Yea Rob ten knives a year for Tri-Colored Camo at $100,000
Dollars each looks like Bodycote's going to have a pretty good
year. When do we start.And of course I'll have to ship COD

Darrell
 
Wow..sounds great! What grit finish is recommeded for the process and how much does it cost per blade????
 
Taz Our coating process will duplicate the finish on the blade
So what ever finish we start with will be their after.The Boron
Carbide is only 2 Microns thick. Cost per blade are for
folders $3.00 $4.50 each, fixed as much as $12.00 to $15.00 Each.

For a carbon steel blade used in the kitchen I feel a multi-layered
Boron Carbide with a Chrome underlay would work best.

Darrell Lewis
 
Well no wonder I cant make any money at this knifemaking Darrell, I sold the first 10 knives for $100 each! I just got some zeros mixed up I guess. I think Ill just get some fingernail polish and spray paint and tell them Bodycote did it for me! :D
 
I was at Nordic Knives in Solvang today (getting a Small Sebenza, thank you very much!)when I saw the new William Henry T-12 CF in Black Boron Carbide. Incredible looking blade! I have a T-10 CF and have always wanted a larger WH knife and this thing looks to be the one. I almost bought it instead of the Sebenza, but I think for an EDC the Small Sebenza makes more sense. But Ooooohhhhh.....it was beautiful!

jmx
 
Darrell Lewis,I am interested in you Boron Carbide coating for folders and fixed blades. What is the turn around time? Do you have a website? Please email me your url. Do you have a minimum order or can I send you one knife?
 
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