Boye Dendritic Folders (+interview)

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UnknownVT

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Feb 15, 2003
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David Boye BDC and BDS Lightweight Lockback Folders
FoldersS.jpg


3" blade - 4" closed
BDC = Boye Dendritric Cobalt (non-steel - cast cobalt alloy)
BDS = Boye Dendritic Steel (cast 440C)
Zytel handles

spoke to David Boye on the phone today and he is just doing his "Boat Knives" - which are the BDC Cobalt folders - the style above (blue handle) which used to be called the "Prophet" - now he just calls the pointed-tip boat knife, and the only other style of the Boat Knife is a sheepsfoot serrated blade folder - see his website:

http://www.boyeknives.com/

David does all the grinding and hand finishing on these knives.

Any other styles of knife is now a special order -
he can still make them - but one has to contact him for the special order.

The Eagle wing folder is in BDS steel which is a cast 440C - and this is one of my sharpest and "cuttin'est" knives ever.

It is a very shallow hollow-grind that continues to thin toward the edge.

I specifically asked David about his hollow-grinds and why so many others do hollow-grinds that thicken toward the edge (which is kind of self-defeating the whole point of a hollow-grind).

He explains that he grinds down to 1/1,000th**[note: this is WRONG please see CORRECTION below] of an inch and uses a rather large wheel grinder of 20" vs. the usual 10" wheels.

I questioned about grinding so thin - wouldn't this ruin the temper of the blade as the there is so little material to dissipate the heat. He said it shouldn't and one can always use water for cooling.

** CORRECTION [edit 9/3/2003]** - perhaps I was wrong about 1/1,000th of an inch -
perhaps he said 10 thou and I mis-heard or had wishful thinking working....

see also David Boye's own specs where it says 0.010" or 10 thou.
http://www.boyeknives.com/technical_info.cfm

I went and searched my old rec.knives posts where David had 0.012" edge thickness in his old brochures - and when I spoke to him then he told me he could get down to 0.008" - that is 8 thou

rec.knives thread on Boye's Blades Re: Blade thickness - Date: 1998/01/16

My apologies for the confusion.

--
Vincent

http://UnknownVT2005.cjb.Net
http://UnknownVT.cjb.Net
http://UnknownVincent.cjb.Net
 
Originally posted by Keith Montgomery
I really like David's knives, in particular his small fixed blades. He does some really nice work.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your comments on the Boye knives.

Did you ever get David Boye's Basic series of all steel fixed blades? - the Basic 1 was a 2" dropped edge - with a neat multi-carry sheath.

Although the steel handles looked otherwise - they were actually pretty comfortable.

Davide made me a Basic 3 with a blue Micarta handle in BDC Cobalt -
but gave me a BDS prototype with black micarta handle -
as I suggested putting handle material on the larger Basic models.

The additional of handle material changed the character of the knives - to make them feel "beefy" as opposed to slim - so suited the bigger Basic -

However my initial suggestion was to have removable handles so that one could choose between slimmer/sleek profile for carry, and the substantial/beefy feel for hard work.
 
Originally posted by NFMee
so are you saying I can call Dave and ask him to make me other stuff??:eek: :eek:
Click to expand...

What David said was that he is currently only making his Boat Knives (folders) -
any other Boye knife is now a special order.
 
I have a new BDC folder with the eagle wing design (also used to open blade)in cobalt and love it.!!I just wish he ground the blade higher and closer to the handle to get more cutting edge. Think he would ? Danny:rolleyes:
 
Originally posted by dannyv
I just wish he ground the blade higher and closer to the handle to get more cutting edge. Think he would ?
Click to expand...

Actually I think he would - :)

David is very friendly and accomodating -
you might want to contact him and talk about this.

Now that you mentioned it - I note that my BDS (steel) Eagle wing folder does seem to have a longer tang/heel than my BDC (cobalt) in my photo above.

David Boye may have a reason for this -
or you may well have come across an improvement -
talk to him -

http://www.boyeknives.com/about_us.htm
 
I found some of my old reviews on rec.knives -
FoldersS.jpg

Newsgroups: rec.knives
From: (VT)
Date: 1996/10/08
Subject: David BOYE Lightweight Lockback another REVIEW

First let me declare my bias.

I am a David Boye "fan" - he wrote the classic book "Step By Step
Knifemaking (You Can Do It!)" that many knifemakers acknowledge as their
start and inspiration.

I think he is a legend.

I "reviewed" his Lightweight Lockback "Prophet" Model about a month or so
ago, which I liked a great deal and said it would be my alternate daily
carry between the Spyderco Walker Zytel (and you guys know how enthusiastic
I am about that one
smile.gif



Recently I received the Eagle Wing design BOYE Lighweight Lockback from
Brian Skelton of Bo's'n Locker.


Again I asked Brian nicely
smile.gif
to make sure the folder had all the correct
attributes like smooth action, positive lockup with no play whatsoever, and
positive closure......


Well my one sample has all of that - I think it is even a little smoother
than the Prophet model I had....


What's the difference in models?..... in fact, what _are_ the models?


First a little basic description - these Boye Lightweight Lockbacks are
Zytel handled folders, and, as named - lockbacks - with a mid-lock which
has the lock latch recessed (curve cutout to follow the contour of the lock
latch cutout on the handle) to reduce any accidental unlocking.


The blade(s) have a hollowed out recess area to allow the right thumb to
open the blade one-handed.


There are a total of 8 designs of this hollowed out recess, of which there
are 2 different blade widths due to the designs (got it?)


Wide(r) blades designs are:


Eagle Wing; Mountains (sometimes called "Sierra Peaks"); Blue Whale; and
Bow Hunter.
(the Wing and Mountains are to my eyes more "stylish" as the recess takes
the shape of the objects. The Blue Whale is a relief in the dished out
recess oval shape, as is the Bow Hunter which is a primitive line relief).


Narrow(er) bladed models are:


The Prophet (plain/no design recess - shaped like a giant nail-nick);
Sunburst (relief of sunburst flames); Basket Weave (pattern inside recess);
and Celtic Horse (primitive symoblic relief in recess)


The KnifeCenter of the Internet has some small dark pictures which don't
really show the different design/patterns - but the URL is at:

(url out of date)

BUT this site has much, much better pictures of the designs:

(url out of date)

Back to the "review":


I really like my wide(r) bladed Eagle Wing design. I think it looks great.


Action as mentioned is smooth. Lockup shows no play whatsoever
open.....being a lockback the closure is positive with no danger of the
blade falling open.......


Just as well - because this is one of the SHARPEST blades I have come
across.


I have said this before - I think David BOYE knives have some "magic" -
people may pooh-pooh this, but this is my opinion from my own knife
collecting and using experience.


The blade has a real nice silky smooth satin finish runs longitudentally on
the flats and laterally in its "hollow ground".


I say "hollow ground" cautiously -


I find many hollow grinds, the blades actually get thicker toward the
cutting edge.


You can easily "feel" this by pinching the blade faces between the thumb
and finger and pulling toward the edge - the thinnest part is NOT at the
edge, it actually thickens before the actual working edge.


I believe that's why many people don't like hollow grinds - because they
might LOOK nice, but the geometry of thickening toward the edge, makes any
cut have to "jump over" the thickening part. ie: that forms its own
resistance to a smooth cut (sure it's still fine for "shaving" but I still
don't shave with my knives
smile.gif



Whereas the BOYE kife is "hollow ground" - but with this VITAL difference -
it does NOT thicken toward the edge - at least not that I can feel.


So this is really a "concave ground", just to distinguish it from the
common hollow ground.


The cutting edge bevel on my sample is only on one sided, the other side is
the concave ground - I don't know if this is deliberate or an oversight.
Whatever......


It is the sharpest thing on my person - it slices through hanging paper so
cleanly - as if it had no resistance.


It whittles or cuts slivers cleanly off of my "standard" ad-hoc test of a
cedar arrow shaft - again almost with no pressure - I did not need to use
my left-hand thumb on the back of the blade at all, to achieve this.


Whereas my alternate "favorite" of the Syderco Walker does not do this
trick well even with thumb behind blade...... (its hollow ground distinctly
thickens toward the edge)


I think in terms of cutting the cedar arrow shaft it arguably out cut even
the Blackjack TrailGuide - my benchmark.


Like I said "MAGIC"!


The steel is David BOYE's BDS - Boye Dendritic Steel which is a cast 440C.
Apparently because of the casting treatment the steel carbides are better
aligned to give the edge some "micro serrations" and better edge holding
ability and toughness. That, of course is Boye's own advertizing.


But my limited experience shows that his knives certainly have something
"special" - I still call it "magic"
smile.gif



How about the opening/closing ability one handed?


Well the recess dished out area is NOT as good as a Spydie HOLE, but it is
"serviceable". The wide(r) blade designs I think are easier to open with
the thumb, over the narrower blades. The cheapest - the Prophet with
plain/no design is the hardest to open, as there is less for the thumb to
grip on. My Eagle Wing is easy to open with the thumb, the design helps
with the grip.


However using a different technique allows opening with EITHER hand.


Pinch either side of the recess with thumb and forefinger, use ring and
little finger to push the handle away from the blade. Try it - it's easy.
It is easier with the right hand because the T-6 black anodized aluminum
pocket clip gives extra purchase to the fingers to push, but even without
much practice it is easy for the left hand as well.


Since I am very right handed, and next to useless with my left - a REAL
left handed person should find no difficulty in doing a one handed open.


Closing ONE handed? Most people don't consider a lockback suitable. BUT a
mid lock is easy.


With the blade open (obviously) hold the knife with the edge down pointing
slightly down for safety, with the middle, ring and little fingers on the
opening edge of the handle/scales and the thumb on the lock latch. Depress
the lock-latch - some blade will fall now - hence the hint of pointing the
blade slightly downwards so that even if the blade falls it will NOT go
past the critical mid travel point. The Boye blade does NOT fall (on my
sample), so use the index finger to gently nudge the blade pass the lock
point, but not past the critical mid close point, move your remaining
fingers OUT of the way of the handle opening and continue to shut the blade
fully.


There, closed - ONE-handed - either hand.


If _I_ can do it LEFT handed I am sure anyone can with their primary hand.


This Eagle Wing BOYE is now my alternate daily carry, interchangable with
my Spydie Walker Zytel. At around $45 it is a bargain for such a good
blade.


David Boye is "MAGIC"!

On the BDC - Boye Dendritic Cobalt knife -

Newsgroups: rec.knives
From: (VT)
Date: 1999/01/07
Subject: Re: Boye cobalt blades.

I have a Boye Prophet lockback folder in Boye Dendritic Cobalt - it's
the one with the perforated thumb hole. It is distinguished by a blue
zytel handle.

I also have a a standard BDS (steel) version - I had always been very
impressed with the standard Dendritic Steel version - I think it is
probably more to do with the blade geometry than just the steel
although the steel helps too.


The Colbalt to me is like a even more stainless version that is
non-magnetic. I have not really noticed much difference between the
two - but the caveat is that I am not a heavy user.


Having said that the Dendritic Cobalt version is just as impressive -
again I think due to the blade geometry.


According to David Boye his Dendritic Cobalt should out cut his BDS
(steel) version.


But you should note the hardness of Colbalt is only in the 40's Rc(?)
- but mine cuts well, and I don't think there is direct correlation
between hardness and edge holding when comparing Colbalt to steel.


--

Vincent

http://UnknownVT2005.cjb.Net
http://UnknownVT.cjb.Net
http://UnknownVincent.cjb.Net
 
I have a Boye Basic 3" I think. I can't remember what model it is :)
I like it a lot, I take it fishing. Very sharp, and a handy design.
 
Some of my favorite knives.......scalpel-like sharpness. I have a number of his pieces and edc'd one of his BDS folders for quite a while, loved it!

Maybe I can try and get a group shot but in the meantime....a couple of my favorite pieces. :cool:
standard.jpg


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Dawkind wrote: "Some of my favorite knives.......scalpel-like sharpness. I have a number of his pieces and edc'd one of his BDS folders for quite a while, loved it!
Maybe I can try and get a group shot but in the meantime....a couple of my favorite pieces. :cool:"

Very, very nice thank you!

Those look like Francine Martin etches -

Here's another old rec.knives post of mine about Francine:

Newsgroups: rec.knives
From: (VT)
Date: 1996/11/20
Subject: Re: Boye Knives

(VT) wrote:
>As mentioned in another post I spoke to David Boye this afternoon.
<snip>
>He confirms that most of his custom knives are sent to be etched by
>Francine Martin at their Davenport, CA knives gallery.

Since I was on the phone - I phone the Boye Knives Davenport gallery
and spoke to Francine Martin.

In case some of you are wondering who this Francine person is -

She is the very, very talented etcher/engraver whose beautiful work is
featured on David Boye's blades in the legendary book "Step-by-Step
Knifemaking (you can do it)" by David Boye.

I have never spoken to her before. She was a very enthusiastic person
and bubbled over describing her latest work - on a Boye 3 piece
carving set - from a fairy tale (I don't recall the title/author)
dragon & princess with dragon's head resting in pricess's lap; owl on
another piece and wooden ship on the third.

On a dagger (by another maker) a leopard in a tree with its catch/prey
an impala head showing toward the tip of the blade.

She says she has personally seen hundreds of knifemakers come to David
Boye to thank him for his book which inspired them to start. She say
there is just something about David - he is so spiritiual, and clear
and helpful about getting communicating information.

She said her boyfriend thinks David Boye's knives are "MAGIC" (see,
I'm not the only one).
Francine cited the example of someone who apprenticed with David - who
produced beautiful work - really top-notch - but somehow David himself
manages to make knives that just CUT so much better.......
Like I've been saying David Boye knives are "magic" - and now I am not
the only one who says that :)

boyebook4si.jpg

Step-By-Step Knifemaking: You Can Do It! (Paperback)
by David Boye
Paperback
Publisher: Rodale Pr (November, 1977)
Language: English
ISBN: 0878571817
Product Dimensions: 0.8 x 7.5 x 9.2 inches
Shipping Weight: 1.1 pounds.

--
Vincent
http://UnknownVT2005.cjb.net/
http://UnknownVT.cjb.net/
http://UnknownVincent.cjb.net/
 
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