Brad Southard Flipper Arrived!! Lots of Photos/Video

[A.Dragg]

Was this not only Spyderco's first flipper, but also their first ball bearing knife? I like good washers on knives that work well with them because they have a nice feel, such as a Sebenza or a good Para 2. But bearings could be really cool on some other Spyderco's. Most of them fly open easy enough, but one that comes to mind that could really benefit from bearings is the Tuff.
Most of it's struggle to open comes from the tight lock bar, but I would think the bearings would help a good bit. That would be such a cooler knife if that giant blade would just fly open like a flipper on bearings.

 

[P K]

It looks like a certain "box shop" may have some in stock for those of you looking.

 

[Aidansdaddy17]

Well said A.Dragg. The anti Taichung Spyderco fanboys need to read your post! Beautiful.

 

[fitzpatric]

Sure, ZT is pretty awesome and valuable, but a 561 (which is the perfect comparison for the Southard) is still more expensive and as nice as they are, I none of the 560's I've owned or any other ZT's have been on par with with my Tuff, Techno, Gayle Bradley, Sage 2, etc, in terms of fit and finish and attention to detail, even if they're on par in just about every other way. They just still lack that ultimate custom level detail.

I do understand what you are trying to say and I would agree to a point but there is a lot of speculation in your post. Assuming the people of Taiwan are working far below the American pay scale in order to bring us such nice knives at a good price just isn't true.

Also, the "Our US factory is working at capacity so we have to outsource" I don't buy that either, every single manufacturing business out there that is profitable will at MANY points have to expand, the choice is only where they do it.

Even if we take YOUR comparison of the ZT561 and the Southard it can be argued that with all the machining that goes into the 561's handles (time) there is more work involved and currently can be had for cheaper than a Southard and still be made in the US.

Comparing Sypderco with CRK is apples to oranges, the size of their factories differ greatly and CRK only makes a handful of models.

Regardless, I will enjoy my Southard produced in a very good factory in Taiwan.

I’ve said my peace and my .0002

 

[fitzpatric]

The anti Taichung Spyderco fanboys .

LOL! That doesn't even make sense.

 

[nccole]

I’ve said my peace and my .0002

Wow, you must not value your own opinion you only have 1% of two cents, but seriously Taiwan is not just cheap Asian labor, and I agree with you on that point. I like to compare the Sage 3 to the Manix. You can get a Manix in S30V, G10 and a similar lock to the Sage 3 at about the same price, the Sage 3 is actually usually more expensive. The quality of the two knives are about the same. This example along with others (Sage 2 vs Leafstorm is a decent comparison, leads me to not think of Taiwan as another Chinese made knife, but more like a Japanese made knife which is more respected (although in my experience the Japanese knives are the worst fit and finish knives from Spyderco). It is all perception, and mine is Taiwan means quality, and Spyderco found an awesome manufacturing partner over there and is all about pumping out money making knives as fast as they can. To my knowledge, Spyderco did not expand to Taiwan, they found a company that was already making knives in Taiwan and employ them to make their designs. For Spyderco to expand in United States would take more time, and the Taiwan deal was better to get knives manufactured right away. I don't think Spyderco's employees would also have to be trained to a higher standard, they manufacture fine examples, and if every Spyderco was made in the United States, I do not think the price would change that much.

But anyway, I will also enjoy my Southard very much and every other Spyderco no matter where it came from as well.

 

[B Legit]

Well said A.Dragg. The anti Taichung Spyderco fanboys need to read your post! Beautiful.

Hopefully you are directing this at other folks than the ones who have simply expressed the sentiment that they would prefer to purchase a knife made in the US. I know there have been some threads where people justify their position by trying to associate Taiwanese Spyderco's with a lack of quality, but I dont recall that being expressed here at all, and think that Spyderco's Taichung offerings completely prove that to be false. Personally, the conflict of purchasing a knife produced in Taiwan comes from the fact that high end knives is still a market where there are tons of great products that are produced domestically. I think that we have the opportunity as buyers to ensure that that does not change by the choices we make. I have decided that this knife is so in tune with what I have been looking for that I will go ahead and purchase it, certainly some of the reasons listed above in A. Dragg's post help with that decision. You don't have to be anti something in order to be pro something else. Doesn't really need to be all that dramatic until someone makes it that way IMO.

 

[Aidansdaddy17]

Very true. But there are so many ignorant views towards Taichung/Taiwan. They don't represent China and the manufacturing there. So many people only favor US made without realizing that there are lots of immigrants from Mexico working in our factories pumping out American made products. It all goes full circle. My point has always been. That this partnership creates jobs both ways. For US and Taichung workers. IMHO one cannot exist or create jobs without the other. Yet, some guys on here still turn their nose to it. Being prior service though. I do respect others opinions. Your money is yours. Do with it what you want. Speaking of Spyderco and the Southard or Techno. Amazing! And flawless. Custom quality for less! Now to those American dealers who mark up their product! Sad clown.

 

[rycen]

I do understand what you are trying to say and I would agree to a point but there is a lot of speculation in your post. Assuming the people of Taiwan are working far below the American pay scale in order to bring us such nice knives at a good price just isn't true.

Also, the "Our US factory is working at capacity so we have to outsource" I don't buy that either, every single manufacturing business out there that is profitable will at MANY points have to expand, the choice is only where they do it.

Even if we take YOUR comparison of the ZT561 and the Southard it can be argued that with all the machining that goes into the 561's handles (time) there is more work involved and currently can be had for cheaper than a Southard and still be made in the US.

Comparing Sypderco with CRK is apples to oranges, the size of their factories differ greatly and CRK only makes a handful of models.

Regardless, I will enjoy my Southard produced in a very good factory in Taiwan.

I’ve said my peace and my .0002

Don't you think it's kind of rude to come to someone's house and call them a liar? Especially someone who is proven himself in the past to be very transparent.

 

[fitzpatric]

Don't you think it's kind of rude to come to someone's house and call them a liar? Especially someone who is proven himself in the past to be very transparent.

WOW! now I'm calling someone a liar? I think you are reading WAY too much into my post.

Please explain how I'm calling anyone a liar so I can at least understand why you are accusing me of that.

Nevermind, I really like my Southard and don't want to be dragged down into some silly debate, (now that I have been labeled as going into someones house and calling them a liar).

I'm going to buy more mini Tootsie Pops...

 

[rycen]

Also, the "Our US factory is working at capacity so we have to outsource" I don't buy that either, every single manufacturing business out there that is profitable will at MANY points have to expand, the choice is only where they do it.

I'm referring to this line from your post. If somehow I misinterpreted I apologize.

 

[B Legit]

deleted. Clarified. Satisfied.

 

[fitzpatric]

I'm referring to this line from your post. If somehow I misinterpreted I apologize.

I was refering to the poster I was responding to only, by you saying "someone's house" as in Sal I'm assuming, honestly I don't know what his reasons to manufacture in Taiwan are, and was not refering to him.

My apologies if I didn't explain myself well.

No worries.

 

[nccole]

I'm referring to this line from your post. If somehow I misinterpreted I apologize.

I understand why you might think what you think, but maybe he is referring to people throwing that idea around. I have never personally seen a post by Sal saying they were running full capacity. I have seen lots of people say Spyderco is, but not officially from Sal. I interpreted it as him saying he does not buy the people saying that about Spyderco. To me it is just a rumor until someone post a quote from Sal saying that is the reason they moved some production to Taiwan. Maybe he has and maybe you will produce a quote, but fitzpatric can still think that people saying that about Spyderco is a lie. Sal does chime in quite a bit, and I have a lot of respect, but I take what people say about Sal and Spyderco with a grain of salt. He is not to my knowledge divulging specific details about business decisions and why there are delays here and there. A lot of the reasons comes from us speculating.

Just to get a picture in the thread to keep with the title!

 

[rhswanson]

I think this would be cool. Wish I could feel it in my hands first...

 

[Jet B]

Spyderco makes knives in a variety of places.

Our main problem in finding outside makers is their ability to consistently meet our quality standards. We've tried makers all over the world. There are few that can consistently meet those needs. Once we find a good maker, the main problem with very high quality makers is their capacity.

We have a new maker in Taiwan that is exceptional in his ability to meet our needs for quality.



We try to use the highest quality steels available in each country. We also constantly improve the quality of the steel as technology in that country develops new steels.

Taiwan doesn't make steel so all of their steel is imported. We felt that the best thing to do was to use a USA made steel and ship it to Taiwan.

The Sage is a very refined design, a synthesis between the Caly3 and the Native. It will be used in a variety of locks as the model progresses. The current model is a Michael Walker Linerlock. Carbon Fiber was used for the scales. The first production Carbon Fiber knife made was Spyderco's Michael Walker collaboration in the early 90's.

On the Sage, we use a very unique texture on the surface of the CF.

The Sage is a very nice EDC. High end materials at a reasonable price.

CPM-S30V blade (USA made) Blade is 3mm thick, 3" long, cutting edge 2-5/8". Full Flat grind. Full stainless liners, skeletonized for weight reduction. PB washers. Left/right wire clip black coated. Jimping on spine and finger choil. All screw construction. This is one of my designs.

As far as the politics of country of origin, there are many points of view. Our first choice is Always Buy American. That's why we have a growing factory in Golden. But's that a subject for another thread.

We are looking forward to hearing your reactions to this new model and project.

I think we'll use a Chris Reeve style Integral Lock on the next version.

sal

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...s-Here!?highlight=Golden+full+capacity+taiwan

Hi Golddust,

I understand your concern. There are many that think as you do, which is why we continue to expand our Golden factory.

I think it's important for our country that we manufacture here in the US. I believe all manufacturers in the US should be expanding their US facilities.

On the Sage's, the steel is made in the US. The wire clip and barrel bolt are made in the US. On the Sage 3, the G-10 is made in the US. Extra work for purchasing and shipping to be shipping all of this stuff to Taiwan, but the maker is worth the effort.

Most of the profit stays in the US (Material suppliers, Spyderco, distributors, dealers, shipping companies, etc). We also sell them world wide which brings more money back to the US.

At Spyderco, we always try to do the right things for the right reasons. In this case, I believe we are providing good design, good concept, good quality at fair prices.

sal

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...age5?highlight=expand+Golden+Spyderco+factory


Sal has stated many times that they just can't handle the demand for more knives in Golden and they can't grow fast enough. The answer is to outsource production.

 

[rycen]

These quotes were taken from two different threads on the home forum.

Hi Wolverine,

When we make a first run on any new knife, we select a working number, make and deliver them. We have no idea what demand will be or even if there will be glitches showing up once in the field. Then we schedule subsequent runs. The Yo 2 is in production now, but making a knife is an long process, and also must fit in with all of the other models also in production. The Yo sold faster than anticipated. We'll do our best to meet the demand as quickly asd we can.

FYI, we are always increasing our capacity in Golden. Many of the machines aree made to order and take a year to get operating on the floor. We're making 3 times as many knives as we were 5 years ago.

sal

Hi Kirk,

1. We're far behind on being able to fill the demand for Paramilitaries at this time. We are building then as fast as we can but it will be a while before we can catch up. Amazon didn't want to list a model they couldn't deliver, so they have temporarily stopped showing the model.

2. Collecting can be difficult as we create more designs than most could afford. I would suggest studying the catalog and see if there is a"theme" that we make that pleases you. Are you using the knives? What are you using them for? Size? Steel? We try to create enough variety to be able to satisfy most, but all is difficult.

3. Ed Schempp is in Golden right now. Going over some new models and planning for some we already had. the cost of a model is more dependent on the country of origin (where it's made) more than the designer. Ed likes high quality pieces and they're usually made in some of the more expensive countries. You might keep your eyes open for a used piece? or maybe somebody here has a piece they'd like to move?

sal

While I don't like to assume I think It's fairly safe to say that the Golden factory must be working very hard. That statement is my own. I am basing that on the shortage of the standard paramilitary 2.

 

[fitzpatric]

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...s-Here!?highlight=Golden+full+capacity+taiwan




http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...age5?highlight=expand+Golden+Spyderco+factory


Sal has stated many times that they just can't handle the demand for more knives in Golden and they can't grow fast enough. The answer is to outsource production.

I read your quotes, he says "I believe all manufacturers in the US should be expanding their US facilities." and "Our first choice is Always Buy American" and "which is why we continue to expand our Golden factory."

Not sure how you extrapolated your statement from his quotes but I think you just reinforced the opposite, lol

 

[Jet B]

I read your quotes, he says "I believe all manufacturers in the US should be expanding their US facilities." and "Our first choice is Always Buy American" and "which is why we continue to expand our Golden factory."

Not sure how you extrapolated your statement from his quotes but I think you just reinforced the opposite, lol

What I'm trying to tell you is that he has stated in the past that they can't handle the demand for new models in Golden. They can only grow so fast. Maybe the more direct quotes were on the Spyderco forum itself, I can't remember where I read them.

The point of those quotes above is to show you that he does value manufacturing at home. I think it's important for people to understand that. When they manufacture in Taiwan, its growth for the American economy that wouldn't happen otherwise because Golden is tapped out and already growing as fast as financially viable.

But of course, you are probably just disagreeing with us for the sake of being argumentative. Maybe Sal will stop by and say it again because I already spent enough time searching old posts. Believe what you want.

 

[fitzpatric]

But of course, you are probably just disagreeing with us for the sake of being argumentative.

The truth is I don't know, and I was willing to listen to you (and was) right up until you made this statement.