Brands to stay away from

[bhp9]

Frost, anything Pakistan made, ZT (cost) GEC (I like Case and Boker).

I have a Frost trapper knife with half stops and find it satisfactory in every way, it has good snap, half stops, no blade wiggle, very sharp and holds an edge, nicely colored bone scales. I carry it in my front pocket and would not be without it. I got it at a pawn shop for next to nothing. A great buy. I found a Pakistani knife that is about the same size and style as the Buck 110 only unlike the Buck the Pakastani has phenolic scales. These scales were so tough that when the former moron owner used the knife as a hammer the scales did lose a little bit of meat but did not disintegrate and the knife is still usable. I bought it at the same pawn shop for $2.00. It is razor sharp and the blade fits with no wobble and has plenty of snap. The color of the phenolic scales is a very pleasing deep maroon. The bolsters are brass and engraved. A far better knife in quality than any of my Buck 110 knives. I also bought an Indian knock off of the Fairbairne Sykes commando knife. I like it better than the original John Knowles knife I have as its built far more rugged for hard use as opposed to the delicate blade of the Knowles knife which I consider almost next to useless for any task. I have a knock off of the famous WWII Devil's brigade knife made in India and it was a steal compared to paying 4 times that amount for one made by the original maker Case. The Case knife is hollow ground while the knife made in India has a straight grind but the Indian knife is sharp enough for its intended purpose.

 

[bhp9]

Are you asking about what knives you should buy, because you want others(us) to like them?
That is kinda the vibe I'm getting from you.

Get whatever you like the look of, that isn't sold in a gas-station, and you'll find out what it is you like, and don't like.
Much more rewarding than going with whatever is popular, purely because it is popular.

No truer statement was ever made. That is exactly what I do too.

 

[MolokaiRider]

CFK (ipak)
Ganzo
Sanrenmu

 

[Hackenslash]

Well, this thread went south in a hurry.

I guess you missed the attacks on the person who doesn't want to support the ChiComms (and neither do I). Called him names, etc. And look at what you posted! Sheesh. Oh, welcome to ignore.

Ok, you’ve got me at a loss here. I’ve been through the entire thread and didn’t find evidence of the attacks or name calling you claimed.

Could it be this?:

Don’t feed the trolls.

@CSG I just don’t see your claim. Please link it to help me understand why this is such a sensitive issue to you. There’s definitely a raw nerve somewhere.

Now, if you want to debate politics and economics, there’s a place here to do that. At the end of the day, the politics behind a knife have no bearing on its suitability to perform as a reliable tool. Case closed, end of discussion.

 

[Eli Chaps]

Don't listen to the seething minority here on BladeForums about Strider Knives. They're some of the best knives being made today. I don't know what inspires a grown man to audit another's military service in his spare time.

The one's I avoid right now:

Zero Tolerance - Very suspect of how much of these products are USA made. We know the hardware and clips aren't. The price point is awfully suspicious to me and they share some telltale manufacturing cues with the Chinese made Kershaws. Unique grind striations etc.

Spyderco - Not because of anything to do with quality, I'm just unable to sharpen their edges to my liking with the way they terminate the edge against a hard, flat surface.

WE Knives - Seen a few pics with clear porosity in the Ti, and I can't unsee that. One day some rich YouTube knife scientist will take the band saw to a dozen of their scales and see what's really going on there.

Hinderer Gen 6 - He caved to the lockbar insert mafia. Sad. Wish we could have all the new features without that wart on the top of the lockbar.

Good grief.

 

[soc_monki]

This is good to hear! There was a more fleshed out version of my theory posted on another popular knife board a while ago and after reading it I started drawing a lot of the same conclusions. If they're still giving factory tours I'd love to make a stop next time I'm in the PNW. I'm glad you were able to kind of see where I was coming from with the hardware and clips looking a lot like the Chinese models.

The finishes also got me. Take Benchmade for a good example of a grind finish that I've never seen replicated (not that I think it's especially attractive or think it should be replicated). Easiest way to tell a Benchmade clone is if the tumbling actually cleaned up the grind lines. But if they're using the exact same belts and tumbling media in the US facility and the China facility then I guess it's possible that Cryo's and 0562's look like they came from the same shop in subtle ways.

the only thing similar on a Cryo and a 562 are the fact that they are Hinderer designs. and as for what you said of Strider's knives, it's not the quality of the knife that is the problem (at least the Medford made ones, but I'll be avoiding Medford even more than I was before now) the problem is that Mick Strider, aka Mickey Ray Burger, is a liar. I will not support what he did, so I will never buy a Strider or Strider design knife made by someone else.

 

[Weasipoint]

I'm sorry everyone! Never meant to start a big debate or have this turn into a brand battle. Thank you for the info and I got some good take away, stay away from clones and strider is not a good person. I was really looking for who to avoid because of issues like strider gets into, brands that are a known taboo for this and that and people on here avoid.
The knife word is still fairly new to me and I can honestly say I've never met people with more passion for their collections and what they do than these forums. I was not trying to insult anyone or any brand, ive just been burned in the past when I started collecting, cards and coins (buying fakes from dealers known to do it) and wanted to avoid that in this world.

 

[Quiet]

Don't listen to the seething minority here on BladeForums about Strider Knives. They're some of the best knives being made today. I don't know what inspires a grown man to audit another's military service in his spare time.

The one's I avoid right now:

Zero Tolerance - Very suspect of how much of these products are USA made. We know the hardware and clips aren't. The price point is awfully suspicious to me and they share some telltale manufacturing cues with the Chinese made Kershaws. Unique grind striations etc.

Spyderco - Not because of anything to do with quality, I'm just unable to sharpen their edges to my liking with the way they terminate the edge against a hard, flat surface.

WE Knives - Seen a few pics with clear porosity in the Ti, and I can't unsee that. One day some rich YouTube knife scientist will take the band saw to a dozen of their scales and see what's really going on there.

Hinderer Gen 6 - He caved to the lockbar insert mafia. Sad. Wish we could have all the new features without that wart on the top of the lockbar.

This is rich. "Don't avoid Strider, people who bring up his stolen valor and lies are wrong! Also, I can't sharpen Spydercos, so clearly the problem lies with them and not me."

LOL

Also, please feel free to support your inferred claim that ZT knives are made elsewhere.

 

[Eli Chaps]

I'm sorry everyone! Never meant to start a big debate or have this turn into a brand battle. Thank you for the info and I got some good take away, stay away from clones and strider is not a good person. I was really looking for who to avoid because of issues like strider gets into, brands that are a known taboo for this and that and people on here avoid.
The knife word is still fairly new to me and I can honestly say I've never met people with more passion for their collections and what they do than these forums. I was not trying to insult anyone or any brand, ive just been burned in the past when I started collecting, cards and coins (buying fakes from dealers known to do it) and wanted to avoid that in this world.

No need to apologize. The controversy is nothing new and you had a legitimate question.

I feel like the delineation for you might be on the definition of "collecting". Users, beaters, task-specific, safe queens, etc. are all valid for each individual but knowing what you your desires are will help folks with recommendations.

 

[MayHemAndHaw]

I like:

Lower Price:
Kabar
Buck
Mora
Victorinox
Rough Rider (traditionals)
Opinel
Condor Knife and Tool
Case
Old Hickory (yes, they work just fine as a sheath knife).
AKC
The Beltrames

More expensive:
CRK
Benchmade
TOPS (I know, very "mall ninja", I can't help it)
Microtech
Protech

those are just a few. I like pretty much any knife that shows decent attention to detail, isn't made by a scumbag- (Mick the d*ck Burger), arrogant jerk (looking at YOU, DeVilliers), or a cloner.

 

[Weasipoint]

I prefer knives i can actually carry and use. Safe queens are great but if im spending that much on something, I want to be able to use it and not have it just sit there. I dont do heavy work but my journey into knives started when I kept buying cheap ones and breaking them, decided to look into a nicer one and its been a whirlwind since then...and my wallets been empty since that day

 

[Hackenslash]

I'm sorry everyone! Never meant to start a big debate or have this turn into a brand battle. Thank you for the info and I got some good take away, stay away from clones and strider is not a good person. I was really looking for who to avoid because of issues like strider gets into, brands that are a known taboo for this and that and people on here avoid.
The knife word is still fairly new to me and I can honestly say I've never met people with more passion for their collections and what they do than these forums. I was not trying to insult anyone or any brand, ive just been burned in the past when I started collecting, cards and coins (buying fakes from dealers known to do it) and wanted to avoid that in this world.

Dude, no worries. We can find a way to take any thread off the rails. Keep in mind that Point of Origin is very important for some knife enthusiasts. I don’t always agree with them, but we can treat each other with respect. Feelings run deep on PoO but there’s no right or wrong when it comes to personally motivated preferences.

Welcome to Blade Forums! We’ll help you spend your money and then tell you it’s the right thing to do!

 

[ron finkbeiner jr]

To me, the ones to stay away from are the ones that charge way too much for the materials they use. When you can go get G10, S35VN, and titanium liners cheaper than ones who charge $260-300 for G10, titanium one side and stainless liners on the other and 154cm for steel that is my ideal of ridiculous and stay away from! (just my opinion)

 

[craytab]

Don't listen to the seething minority here on BladeForums about Strider Knives. They're some of the best knives being made today. I don't know what inspires a grown man to audit another's military service in his spare time.

The one's I avoid right now:

Zero Tolerance - Very suspect of how much of these products are USA made. We know the hardware and clips aren't. The price point is awfully suspicious to me and they share some telltale manufacturing cues with the Chinese made Kershaws. Unique grind striations etc.

Spyderco - Not because of anything to do with quality, I'm just unable to sharpen their edges to my liking with the way they terminate the edge against a hard, flat surface.

WE Knives - Seen a few pics with clear porosity in the Ti, and I can't unsee that. One day some rich YouTube knife scientist will take the band saw to a dozen of their scales and see what's really going on there.

Hinderer Gen 6 - He caved to the lockbar insert mafia. Sad. Wish we could have all the new features without that wart on the top of the lockbar.

I think it is clear who should not be listened to here...

Weasipoint , this is the problem with asking what brands to avoid; you’ll hear every bias or prejudice while not necessarily getting great advice. I can Whole-heartedly suggest staying away from brands that clone, counterfeit, steal, lie or demand full payment up front for a custom. It’s up to you to do the research to determine who those are. Fortunately, the resources are all here at BF.

Every manufacturer who doesn’t clone, counterfeit, steal or lie will have wins and failures. Some win more than others. It’s easier to pick a few brands known for their “wins”, like ZT, Spyderco, WE and Hinderer, and start there.

Good luck!

This really is the perfect response.

I really wish I had asked this question sooner and got opinions before making some bigger purchases. I very recently ordered a custom Darrell ralph, or mid tech ( im still utterly confused by what makes a knife custom vs midterm vs production alot of the advertised custom ones look like the production models) but it was sold as custom. Looking at old posts it seems like I made a mistake, alot of bad things being said about DDR and for the money spent, could have got more reputable name. I really wanted my first custom, though again I don't fully understand that, and think I didnt research enough before ordering. Just liked the looks. Was this a mistake?

Yeah, DDR is controversial. Not as much as others like Strider, but there is some bad information out there. If you do a search you can find threads on the bladeforums.com forum knife debacle. That was a mess. I personally wouldn't own one of his products but some people I respect have no problem with him. I wouldn't say it was a huge mistake like finding out about strider after laying down a bunch of cash. But next time, come here and do a search first. If you are still concerned, ask. Some may be unhelpful, we may bicker among ourselves, and others are just out right trolls looking to start fights over China as an example. You will get good information though, after wading through some of the BS. It's kind of like a big happy but dysfunctional family! Welcome!

 

[marrenmiller]

Sticking just to the question OP asked, I avoid a number of companies for a range of reasons. You decide whether or not any of these reasons resonate with you:

• Strider: covered above in great detail.
• Ganzo: Products seem of low quality and are frequently blatant rip-offs of other designs which I'd rather buy instead.
• Frost/MTech/most gun company ventures into knives except Hogue/etc: Avoid due to quality concerns. I'd rather spend a little more and get a lot more knife from a good company.
• Bestech/CH/Eafengrow/the seemingly hundreds of new Chinese microbrands: They can make good knives, surely, but I'm generally unwilling to buy from foreign companies without warranty support or a solid track record of heat treating or meeting quoted specifications.
• CRKT: A low end maker who charges a lot for their knives and seems to rely on gimmicks to make for differentiating themselves from their competition. If you like their gimmicks, then they might be worth it to you. I'm not impressed with their price points, and I suspect their heat treatments are not good based on my and others' experiences. Kershaw/Civivi/Tangram offer better knives for the money, I think.
• Zero Tolerance: They do great machining, but their designs are always compromised for me by something, be it bizarre fashion over function cutouts in the blades or handles, the use of tiny steel bearings on half pound folding knives, weird lock issues, or soft 20CV which doesn't seem to perform very well for me. They're doing a better job lately of making knives with decent cutting geometry, though.
• Emerson: I've had three and all were terribly made. My problems with Emerson include horrific lock stick, fast wearing or slipping locks, lackluster build quality, left handed chisel grinds on right handed knives, poor opening action, weak detents, the thumb disc as an opener, soft steel, and blocky slab-sided handles that don't feel great in hand. Considering their issues and how expensive they are, I feel they provide very poor value compared to other US OEMs. They have decent warranty support, supposedly, but it's better to just avoid needing it by not buying one.

 

[Weasipoint]

Thank you all for the great info, im definitely not going to do any more impulse buys and will check here before spending a large sum. Saw the custom DDR for a good deal and got excited to have my first custom, but looks like for what I spent I could have supported a better designer and gotten a better overall knife.

 

[craytab]

Thank you all for the great info, im definitely not going to do any more impulse buys and will check here before spending a large some. Saw the custom DDR for a good deal and got excited to have my first custom, but looks like for what I spent I could have supported a better designer and gotten a better overall knife.

Yeah, possibly. He's not a total dirtbag like strider so don't feel too bad at all really. Plus, if you like the knife and got a good deal, enjoy it!

And good on you for becoming a paying member!

 

[mendezj]

Thank you all for the great info, im definitely not going to do any more impulse buys and will check here before spending a large sum. Saw the custom DDR for a good deal and got excited to have my first custom, but looks like for what I spent I could have supported a better designer and gotten a better overall knife.

Like with just about everything, though, the learning curve has a price. And the best way you’ll learn is by also making mistakes. You’ll run into good knives and bad ones and there’ll be surprises. Moreover, the way the industry is advancing, there’ll soon be a better steel, a better knife next week, next month. Enjoy the ride.

 

[Chronovore]

... Frost/MTech/most gun company ventures into knives except Hogue/etc: Avoid due to quality concerns. I'd rather spend a little more and get a lot more knife from a good company. ... Bestech/CH/Eafengrow/the seemingly hundreds of new Chinese microbrands: They can make good knives, surely, but I'm generally unwilling to buy from foreign companies without warranty support or a solid track record of heat treating or meeting quoted specifications...

There are exceptions to every rule but the "gun company" advice is sound. For instance, Smith and Wesson had a Fourth of July special. You could get a free knife with the purchase of one of their handguns. It took a few minutes to identify the knife but it was a Smith and Wesson Oasis. It's made of "reliable" 7Cr17Mov and features a tip-down-only deep-carry clip. (Don't worry. If you missed the special, you can get an Oasis on BladeHQ for like thirteen bucks.)

As far as all those Chinese brands, it really depends on the individual company. For instance, Eafengrow is pretty bad. They are known for copying designs and have been caught putting false "D2" stamps on 8Cr and 5Cr. OTOH, Bestech makes a really nice knife. There has been some independent confirmation for Bestech's Chinese D2. In my experience with a few models now, Bestech's Chinese D2 is okay. The actions have been excellent on the Bestechs I've owned. They also have a US rep and warranty support. I requested a spare back spacer for my Texel. Shipping took a while but they sent it free of charge.

 

[John_0917]

The shady cheap China made ones obviously; as for other companies:

-Italian makers like Lionsteel have had QC issues, especially with heat treat

-Emerson: overpriced, poorly made and owned by total hypocrite (“exceptional American workers blah blah ... lets license designs to have them made in China and make major $$...also Muslims and millennials cause all bad things”)

-Benchmade: has has QC issues and debatable in value, I suggest buying in person and not online

-ZT: make good knives but their PR people are world class A-holes, which is why they don’t have a forum here anymore...also have a lot of soft heat treats

Gerber: have not made quality knives since the 1980s, either domestically or in China, have (among others) had recalls due to safety issues. Pretty sad for a storied name that made the first production knives in Cruwear many years ago.