Broken back seax

JTknives

Blade Heat Treating www.jarodtodd.com
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I have a lady (long time friend) who wants to commission me to build her a broken back seax as a gift for her husbin. I guess he is quite the history buff and can't stop talking about his dream knife and really wants authentic and usable. Price is not much of a concern as she has been briefed on pricing ranges and was ok with it. Her goal is somthing special that goes back to there family's Scottish lowland history and her husband will love. That's about as much input as I got from her besides 10" blade length. So after a few days of research I think I have more questions then answers. So I come hear on bended knee begging for some advise. Proper blade shape taper ratio and blade thickness. It seams like thy where very thick from 1/4 to 3/8" thick and according to some sources did not have any distal taper. How where the tangs secured into the handle. I don't know how important authentic materials would be but it wouldn't hurt.
Thank you guys for any help you can provide.
 
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OK, first - and this is very important - there are no rules on a seax. These knives varied from maker to maker about as much as a Bowie knife did/does.

A seax ( pronounced "Sacks" or "sax" - like the shopping store) is just a large knife. The word is Old English for "knife" or "dagger". They ranged from small knives used to fix diner up to larger ones used for harvesting crops, bushcraft, and fighting. They were always simple and utilitarian.


The modern Scottish dirk was an evolution from the Anglo-Saxon seax, which was used in most of northern Europe and even Scandinavia. It is mostly associated with Germany, France, and the British Isles.



If he wants a Scottish twist, you can use a beefy stag crown for the handle and set a round stone in the butt. If you want to file work the straight part of the spine, that also fits the Scottish look. A simple ferrule type collar is used, not a guard.

Other handle choices are a wrapped leather strip ( like a sword), braided leather strips, or a carved dark wood ( bog oak or African Blackwood) in a dirk handle braid look.

They can have collars/ferrules and butt caps of steel or copper ( I like hammered copper that is patinated in Livers of sulfur to a silvery black that looks like shakudo.).

Most had hidden tangs, but a full tang is also OK. Most have no ricasso, and have the bevel go straight back into the handle.

Some had fullers, most shorter blades did not.



The basic build for a broken back seax is to decide how long you want the blade, how much angle the drop to the tip is to be, and how much wider the blade will be at the break than the handle.

These were very simple knives in most cases. While I made the "Drachensrucken" ( dragon's back) langseax fancy, most seax are plain mid-carbon steel and plain backed with plain handles. Historically, they often had very plain "butcher knife" handles.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...tting-some-shop-time-in-lately-Pictures-added (post #14 shows some photos)


I would suggest a:
8-10" blade edge with the break to the back 3-4" long.
I would go for 1.25" wide at the handle and 1.75" wide at the break.
Use 3/16" steel and do a FFG.
You can have a ricasso or not.
Simple twist or random damascus steel makes a great dress seax/dirk for Scottish wear at Highland games and dress functions.
The spine can be rounded from handle to break (or fileworked), and then swedged at 45° down the break.



Simplest way to make one is do all the shaping steps without the "break" ( drop to the tip). Once you like the widening toward the tip shape, draw in the break and then start grinding it down to the tip.
 
Thankyou so very much for your help. I don't know if she wants a Scottish twist or not. When she first asked me about the project she sent me this picture and said "something like that". Her husband like all guys loves Damascus but she said it's not a must. I had planned on making the Damascus because buying Damascus barstock is quite pricy. Plus making it is so much more fun. Another option I thought might look good was using a big chunk of wrought iron I have and welding a carbon edge onto it and forging out the blade from that.

Here is the picture she sent me.

293-seax.jpg
 
Well we had a good conversation tonigh and hammered down a good idea what she wants. Now it's on a hunt for some nice figured wood that's longer the 6" any ideas a place that might have such a beast. Seams like most blocks are cut to 5" or shorter.
 
Just call or email Mark at Burl Source and tell him what you need. He stocks "Bowie Blocks" or can usually cut special cut whatever you need.
 
I am an admitted seaxophile...
Yes, the blades tended to be quite thick, with no distal taper...in fact, some actually get thicker from the tang/blade junction to the 'hump'.
As far as profile shape, they always get wider from the tang/blade junction to the 'hump' to some degree. Contrary to popular belief, the edge is never perfectly straight.... this is something almost all reproductions get wrong. Here are some images of originals that will help you get a feel for the style...
yorkscaledtoprint_zpsb1eacjyh.jpg

planche2.jpg

SAXL32w33DorsetEngland9-10thDorsetC.jpg

And absolutely no ricasso or false edge! Fullers are common. Fulltangs are as rare as hen's teeth. The geometry should be full-flat or slightly convex. Handles tended to be long, and not usually made of tropical hardwoods...:)
http://www.swordforum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=62044&d=1171864160
Plus making it is so much more fun. Another option I thought might look good was using a big chunk of wrought iron I have and welding a carbon edge onto it and forging out the blade from that.
This is an excellent idea.
 
This is what I have been working with. I'm wanting to get rid of the plunge cuts, but scratching my head on that.
Photo%20Feb%2016%2C%204%2048%2047%20PM.jpg


Photo%20Feb%2016%2C%204%2048%2057%20PM.jpg


Photo%20Feb%2016%2C%204%2049%2002%20PM.jpg
 
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The profile looks excellent! A word of advice, take one of the images I posted into a drawing program and try to find a single perfectly straight line.... there isn't one. Every line is either concave, convex, or is an 's' curve.

The ricasso/plunge was not seen on knives until the Renaissance... let the edge bevel go the entire length of the blade and tang.

I would keep the metal parts of the handle to a bare minimum, there is very little evidence the handles were anything more than a piece of wood or horn, though a ferrule is a possibility.

You are on the right track.
 
I should note, however, that I am a purist, and your design is already more seax-like than 95% of the modern designs I have seen.
 
So I run the edge bevel flat grind all the way off the blade and down tang. Won't that thin out the tang to much. Is that's the case then would say 3/8" stock be better then 1/4"?
 
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I responded to the text did you not get the texts?
 
Ok here it is with a little tweaking on the edge bevels bringing the flat grind all the way down the tang. You can now notice that the spine thickens where the back breaks.

Photo%20Feb%2017%2C%2012%2028%2019%20AM.jpg


Photo%20Feb%2017%2C%2012%2028%2010%20AM.jpg


Photo%20Feb%2017%2C%2012%2028%2027%20AM.jpg


Photo%20Feb%2017%2C%2012%2028%2037%20AM.jpg


Photo%20Feb%2017%2C%2012%2028%2032%20AM.jpg
 
Forged up the billet tonight

Photo%20Feb%2018%2C%2011%2035%2045%20PM.jpg


Photo%20Feb%2018%2C%2011%2057%2036%20PM.jpg
 
This gets better and better. Great project. Care to comment on the software you are using to do the drawings ??????? I'm envious. I have no idea how you do those renderings.
 
SolidWorks. I am lucky because I have used it a lot in the past for work and had it installed on my laptop.
 
like seeing the work you're doing with the billets and design. I think that Seax is going to make someone very happy.
 
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